I don’t know if this applies, but I’ve never been a big fan of the “Patriot Act”.
I find it hard to believe that anybody could be using the term Shrub and not know that it’s offensive, gex gex.
I think you need to brush up on what conservatism is all about. Reading Sam Stones recent GD threads on conservatives would be a good start.
Conservatives want smaller government. Liberals want bigger government.
Your examples are also flawed. Corporate welfare is giving tax breaks to corporations. This is making the government smaller, not larger.
Also, those social programs you are talking about are huge. Having the government completely take over all health care of the entire country can hardly be compared to giving some subsidies to farmers. It would only be valid if the conservatives wanted to have all farming under direct government control with all of us shopping in state run supermarkets.
The democrat party is viewed by many people as extremely out of touch and far to elitist and liberal. Many polls have shown this.
I am not joking when I post this observation, Daniel.
As far as evidence to back this up, consider that Bush’s approval ratings are back up to 56% as of yesterday. I strenously doubt if he would get anything like more than half if you polled the SDMB, and certainly not amongst the lefties among us.
So I agree with 56% of the US public, and some on the SDMB have a hatred of Bush that borders on the pathological. Who would you say is more out of touch with the mainstream, as of today?
Regards,
Shodan
This is reductive, absurd thinking. You can do better.
Many polls also showed that people believed that Iraq was party to 9/11 and that they have WMD. This only proves that many people that were polled are easily fooled by the Republicans. BFD.
A vote for “pubbies.” It’s a gross and nasty term and is only used by people who are gross and nasty or else mindlessly following gross and nasty people.
You can’t compare it to “dems” or even “yellow dog democrat.”
I don’t like to hear anyone say WMD anymore. It’s as though there is this mythic giant bomb with a cowboy riding it, ready to rip and that’s the only thing we could possibly talk about. Completely subverts any attempt to discuss meaningful issues.
It’s simple. But it’s true.
Sure. Whenever a majority of American’s disagree with you it must be because they are brainwashed by the evil republicans. :rolleyes:
Anyway, how could the Republicans fool people into thinking that the Democratic party is too liberal? Isn’t it more likely that they actually are too liberal? Can you even acknowledge that this is a possiblity?
I am so very glad that you asked. I guess that the short answer is no, I do not grant that this is a possibility. To be honest, if we are talking Democrat and Republican I really see very little difference between the two. My take is that just as the Democrats at one time successfully labeled the Republicans as Fat Cat Big Business Types™ that cared nothing for the Common Working Class Folk™ and the Poor (back when it was fashionable to care about such people), that the Republicans have recently successfully labeled the Democrats as Liberal Ivory Tower Cultural Elitists Types™ (now that being educated and cultured is out of fashion).
But you see, none of this is true, and it is simplistic and foolish to pretend otherwise (much like the notion that Liberals want big government and the Conservatives do not). What both parties really want, for the most part, is nothing more complicated than to get power and keep it. This is not that hard to comprehend. If you think for a moment that making the government smaller will accomplish that end, and that the noble Conservatives are working day and night to eliminate their jobs and their power base, I have some plans for a perpetual motion device that I would like to sell you.
This is why the partisan politics are so foolish. Any person that holds either the Liberal or Conservative ideology can see that the system is in the hands of maniacs that are doing little more that giving lip service to our beliefs. That is also why it is so sad to see folks that are otherwise smart defend politicians that are obviously filthy liars and morally bankrupt (and do not for a moment think that I include Bush in this list, but exclude Clinton. Both are filthy fucking liars). It is like we have all bought this big lie, and somehow believe that if someone who is paying lip service to our beliefs is attacked that this really means anything. The whole thing is just sad.
And I know that this has gone on for a long while, but I also want to touch on what seems to be this notion of yours that if the majority of people believe something that this somehow has any bearing on the truth. To be sure, it is worth considering as a starting point. That is all. People, for the most part, can be made to believe anything that the powers that be want them to believe. We see this in the childish rhetorical tricks and bullshit coming from Washington every day. I fail to see how opinion polls reveal anything but the catastrophic ignorance of the average citizen.
Debaser, just by saying “many polls have shown this” means nothing. Whose polls? What was the wording? What were the alternative choices on the polls? Currently, it’s a pretty empty statement.
j.c., how exactly is “pubbies” a gross and nasty term? Are you completely mispronouncing it, and think it’s a reference to pubic hair?
It’s moot, Munch. I could show 50 reputable polls showing how swing voters and democrats alike are being alienated by the increasing liberalism of the democrat party. It wouldn’t matter to Binarydrone, apparantly.
I didn’t start this one, but heres my $.02 on “pubbies”. The term itself isn’t offensive. Not to me anyway. However, it’s most often used by radical liberals on messageboards that tend to be liberal.
So, if a dinner guest used the term pubbies during a conversation with me he wouldn’t be challenged immediately on it. However, I would make assumptions about the person that they are most likely liberal and rabidly anti Bush.
I know that requires quite a bit of speculation on my part, but it’s MHO from my experience on message boards.
Binarydrone,
I actually agree with some of what you say.
There is a fundamental tendancy for government to grow. Both liberal and conservative philosophies are guilty of it. The liberal philosophy is much more prone to it, however. But, you are simply wrong in that it is a core belief of the conservative philosophy that government should be small. If certain Republican’s fail to adhere to this that doesn’t change the fact that it is there. Bush not cutting spending along with his tax cuts is straying from conservatism. This isn’t a “no true Scottsman”, it’s clear as day to anyone who understands the basics of conservatism.
Your claims that every insult used by Republicans and Democrats against eachother being simply marketing are somewhat silly.
Republicans are pro-business and anti-welfare and social spending. Dems spin this to be Fat Cat Big Business Types™ that cared nothing for the Common Working Class Folk™ .
The Democrats do have hold of our media and education systems much more so than Republicans. They also tend to live in cites (4/5 of NYC residents are democrats) while Republicans tend to control the rural areas. The spin on this is that the Democrats are Liberal Ivory Tower Cultural Elitists Types™
There is spin used by both groups. However, what they say is rooted in truth.
If both parties, even the Republicans, are only interested in growing government to increase their power, then why did Bush cut taxes? Is this just another Republican trick?
You have some good points buried under there, but your hatred for our system makes them rotten. You forget that this is the best government available that actually works.
Spoken like a true Liberal Ivory Tower Cultural Elitists Type™
How does giving our money to giant corporations make the government smaller?
Working on it. You with me?
I do thank you for acknowledging that I may have a point or two. However, I really must take exception to this statement. More than anything of late, I am growing a bit weary of honest criticism of our system getting translated in to “why do you hate America so much?”
It could be that this is a bit of a hot button for me, but I really don’t see how I could interpret this statement another way.
I would not choose to live under any other system, and for the most part do feel that the ideals that ours is founded on are noble and worthy. However, this does not mean that I will not look at it with a critical eye and fail to point out problems when I see them.
The stockholders own the networks?!?!
Great post, Binarydrone!
Debaser, you’re full of shit. One of the reasons for the Freedom of Speech clause of the First Amendment is so citizens can criticize how our government works without fear of government retribution. Criticism does not equal hatred. Nor does it equal treason (not that you personally said so). It is frankly, a birthright of everyone. We just happen to live under a system that allows it. Lucky us!
While I am not a member of any political party (I describe myself as moderate with liberal or conservative leanings, depending on the issue), I utterly despise hearing Republicans spew about morality, as if they have a copyright on it.
While ‘Shrub’ and ‘Slick Willy’ can be derogatory, I find them both very apt. If anyone can’t read a thread or article with these opposition insults present, I feel sorry for them. Really, sometimes there are diamonds in the waste.
I dunno, but I have heard some rumors about soiled trousers.
Traitor is number one on my list. Though actually, I may hate this little piece too: when I am informed that while I am entitled to my liberal beliefs (i.e., anti-war, etc) this country and my freedom to such views exists because of those that were willing to fight to preserve it (as if I were not :rolleyes:) and as such I am a freeloader and not entitled to my views. Huh? Nice circular reasoning there.
“Liberal” as if it were some kind of slur, “liberal media” and other such things bother me as well, but not very excessively. The assertion that the Democratic party is getting more and more liberal both pisses me off AND cracks me up. The Democratic party and this nation as a whole has actually had a mild conservative regression (not using that negatively, just the only term that comes to mind) in recent years, particularly since 9/11. The Democratic party is moderate to the point of being ridiculous. Democrats are attacking other DEMOCRATS for being “liberal,” (see "liberal used as slur above). Joe Lieberman might as well defect, already.
I’m not a Democrat, by the way. I just happen to be one o’ them lefties that hates all politicians with equal fervor :D.
We have to remember that just as the word “liberal” is used as a slur (especially when appropriately pronunced), the term “right-wing” is equally insulting.
refusal wrote
Yeah, who’s bitter and prejudiced here?
Sometimes to the point of paying no taxes whatsoever.
If the government takes our taxes, and gives it directly to another person, how is that making the government smaller? By your standards, if I take someone’s money and give it to someone else, have I become richer?
I guess this brings me to my peeve-word: “Big Government” (Try to envision the word as accompanied by spooky, bass-heavy music.) I mean, with this many people in our country, how could a government be anything but big? The way I see it, our government and regulations are the only thing keeping us from living in a Feudalistic society with the CEOs as the kings and queens.
Here’s two more: “Bush-hater” and “Anti-Bush”. These phrases are perfect for reducing our arguments to simple hate-mongering. Bah. Most of us don’t hate, or even dislike Bush. Most of us don’t find it remotely hard to believe that Bush loves his dog and looks out for his kids. He probably even remembers his anniversary most of the time. We just think his policies are destroying our once beautiful country. And we want it back.
On that note, I guess I should admit that I’m one of those people who uses the term pubbies. But I honestly never thought it was insulting, just a nickname. Can anyone suggest an alternative?