Terror Dry Run - Real or Hoax?

[BurnMeUp]

A friend sent this link to a few of us: Terrorist dry run on a plane?

I’m pretty certain it’s a fabrication. The only truely identifiable happening is that there is a 12:20ish flight from Detroit to LAX numbered as Flight 327. There are no other facts that can be IDed.

The writer only has one other article on that site, which was more than 6 months prior to this one.

No mention of the event in any AP, Reuters, LA Times or other news source. You’d think if this was a real possible occurence (concluding with a police investigation and questioning of people) that it would have made some news source other than this little website.

Nothing on Snopes (but I did submit it for their opinion).

Is there any other way of proving to my friend it didn’t actually occur?

Thanks in advance.

[Finagle]

Well, the events as described actually took place. At this point, there’s no telling if there’s any more meat to the story than a bunch of people got creeped out by unusual behavior of a group of foreign individuals on a plane.

[BurnMeUp]

All we have is one blog confirming the story of a websire with a women with limited reporting credentials. I’d like to see something a little more definate than that.

[MLS]

@Finagle

Well, the events as described actually took place. At this point, there’s no telling if there’s any more meat to the story than a bunch of people got creeped out by unusual behavior of a group of foreign individuals on a plane.

This link doesn’t work – do you have another? Or a quote from the article?

Burnmeup, what makes you think these people are lying?

[Larry_Mudd]

Here’s a fixed link.

[wolf_meister]

I don’t know if they are lying but it just might be an attempt at another Internet rumor, Urban Legend, etc. (and you know people are not above doing that).

The trips to the lavatory are vaguely similar to the events of the movie “Executive Decision” (1996) . http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0116253/

As you probably know, James Woods reported unusual activity by 4 middle-eastern men in a flight he took from Boston to LA on August, 2001.
http://www.snopes.com/rumors/woods.htm

[MLS]

Thanks, Larry.
Having read this article and many of the responses to it, I am inclined to believe the story is truthful.

I am also thinking about what is the best thing to do if one is observing a similar situation. One of the respondents suggested cameras. Start taking pictures in the plane, including the suspected people.

Probably unsafe for some, but how about the more able-bodied simply walk up & down the aisles and engage the people in friendly conversation? It’s not discriminatory, and it’s not threatening. “Nice flight, eh? Your first trip to L.A.? Going to Disney World? Been there myself, visiting some family.” If they are really just innocent travelers, there should be no problem. If not, it lets them (or whoever sent them as a probe) that people are watching and will not be taken over.

[Larry_Mudd]

@MLS

Having read this article and many of the responses to it, I am inclined to believe the story is truthful.

Really? My impression on reading it was that it was likely a hysterically imbellished account of a flight which some loonie shared with a musical band who had an ethnicity she was uncomfortable with.

[Dave Adams of the Federal Air Marshals Service] confirmed that he spoke to Annie Jacobsen, was quoted accurately in her story, and confirmed some of the basic facts outlined in her article (there were 14 Syrians on the flight; they were questioned by the Los Angeles Police Department, FBI, FAM, and so on; they were a musical band).

He was ‘quoted accurately’ in the article.

“Our FAM agents have to have an event to arrest somebody. Our agents aren’t going to deploy until there is an actual event.”

ie; this was a non-event. Ms. Jacobs also ‘quotes’ him obliquely here, with what sounds like an accurate representation of what happened:

Adams told me what he knew:

There were 14 Syrians on NWA flight #327. They were questioned at length by FAM, the FBI and the TSA upon landing in Los Angeles. The 14 Syrians had been hired as musicians to play at a casino in the desert. Adams said they were “scrubbed.” None had arrest records (in America, I presume), none showed up on the FBI’s “no fly” list or the FBI’s Most Wanted Terrorists List. The men checked out and they were let go. According to Adams, the 14 men traveled on Northwest Airlines flight #327 using one-way tickets. Two days later they were scheduled to fly back on jetBlue from Long Beach, California to New York – also using one-way tickets.

They were subjected to scrutiny. Presumably, they turned out to be exactly what they represented themselves as.

Incidentally, Ms. Jacobs usage of Ann Coulter as an authority doesn’t exactly inspire confidence, either.

I couldn’t get to the second page on the OP’s link – here’s a link to a usenet posting of the same article for anyone with the same problem.

[BurnMeUp]

@MLS

This link doesn’t work – do you have another? Or a quote from the article?

Burnmeup, what makes you think these people are lying?

I’m not certain these people are lying so much as embellishment.

If you look at the format,at it’s too convenient that a story of this magnitude wasn’t discussed in any form of media until a MONTH after it occured. Now keep in mind, if someone so much as slips past a security checkpoint in an airport it’s on the evening news nationwide. If a mere suggestion of a “credible threat” happens, the dept of homeland security raise us to orange or vemillion or alabaster or whatever color it is.

Here we have a “reporter” who only has one other writing credit I could find, on this exact same website, reporting on saving your assets. No in-depth reporting, no international reporting. This prerson apparently stumbles on what she’s purporting to be a terrorism dry run and yet can’t interest a single news organization?

How many other people were on this flight. Not one other person mentioned anything to any news organization until it shows up on this little tiny website a month later?

Doesn’t it seem odd that a flight attendant would tell a passenger that there are several air marshals aboard and that they need his help to write down descriptions of the people, when there are multiple air marshals aboard? And the flight attendant claims that “it would be less suspicious for a passenger to monitor and write this down”. I have been on many a plane. If i saw some guy looking around from person to person and writing down things on a pad, or I saw a flight attendant doing the same thing, who would I be suspicious of?

It just stinks of an Urban Legend. A “Great Danger”, the unifying of every day people to thwart attackers.

I know we have to be vigilant. But to me this looks like a grand embelishment at best, outright fantasy at worst.

Keep in mind that out of all the news agencies around the only written confirmation at this time was from a different woman who writes a Blog. No CNN, no BBC News, no Reuters, no AP.

I could be wrong. But until I hear some verification from sources that I consider to be valid, I will continue to be skeptical.

[Martiju]

@MLS

I am also thinking about what is the best thing to do if one is observing a similar situation. One of the respondents suggested cameras. Start taking pictures in the plane, including the suspected people.

Probably unsafe for some, but how about the more able-bodied simply walk up & down the aisles and engage the people in friendly conversation? It’s not discriminatory, and it’s not threatening. “Nice flight, eh? Your first trip to L.A.? Going to Disney World? Been there myself, visiting some family.” If they are really just innocent travelers, there should be no problem. If not, it lets them (or whoever sent them as a probe) that people are watching and will not be taken over.

Being English, and therefore somewhat reserved I’d find such an approach very suspicious and would immediately react by looking at my feet and frowning. Quite a lot, probably.

[Bongmaster]

Hmm, interesting story. I don’t quite believe it in full myself. Imagine you are a passenger on that plane with your wife and kids. Do you completely ignore the obviously suspicious behavior of these guys and simply sit there and do nothing? Political correctness be damned…if I saw that scene unfold you can be sure I would say/do something. No way would I sit passively, no fricking way. And I seriously doubt I’m the only one that would feel that way. Wouldn’t someone on that flight have stood up and said:

“Hey guys, the plane is landing and you’re all acting very strangely hanging around in a group near the bathroom. What’s going on?”

I’ve never been on a flight where there flight attendants would allow that kind of behavior pre 9/11, let alone after.

[calm_kiwi]

The moral of the story for this woman is “Syrians should never fly in more then pairs?”

[Dewey_Finn]

FYI, this story was written up in the “On The Road” column (registration required) of July 20, 2004 issue of the New York Times, so I believe it to be factual.

[Larry_Mudd]

@Dewey Finn

FYI, this story was written up in the “On The Road” column (registration required) of July 20, 2004 issue of the New York Times, so I believe it to be factual.

I don’t think anyone doubts that the author got scared on a flight with some Syrians.

As the FAMS spokesman says in the NYT writeup:

Yesterday, a Federal Air Marshal Service spokesman, Dave Adams, a law enforcement officer for 30 years, said that the suspicious characters on Flight 327 were musicians. The man in the yellow shirt was a drummer, he said.

"We interviewed all 14 of these individuals,’’ Mr. Adams said. “They were members of a Syrian band” traveling to a gig at a casino near Los Angeles, he said, adding that their names were run through “every possible” data bank and terrorist watch list. “They were scrubbed. Nothing came back.” […]

Mr. Adams said, air marshals aboard Flight 327 “checked out the lavatories, and nothing looked like it was in disarray after these people went inside; everything was thoroughly inspected.” […]

As for the Syrian band, “They gave their little performance in the casino and two days later they flew out on a JetBlue flight from Long Beach to New York,” Mr. Adams said.

I love this:

Ms. Jacobsen isn’t convinced. No one has disputed any of her facts, she said, and in an article that she posted on the Web site yesterday, she asked why the Syrian band hadn’t been identified.

Hey! The government hasn’t identified by name the innocent people I’ve publicly accused of being dangerous terrorists! What’s up with that? :rolleyes:

[Larry_Mudd]

@Larry Mudd

I don’t think anyone doubts that the author got scared on a flight with some Syrians.

Of course, that would be because it’s been a few days since I read the actual posts in the thread. :smack:

[Steve_MB]

@BurnMeUp

A friend sent this link to a few of us: Terrorist dry run on a plane?

Here’s the bit that started my BS Detector screeching:

Approximately 10 minutes later, that same flight attendant came by with the drinks cart. She leaned over and quietly told my husband there were federal air marshals sitting all around us.

This is a rather blatant violation of security procedure, not to mention common sense.

She asked him not to tell anyone and explained that she could be in trouble for giving out that information.

Gee, ya think?

She then continued serving drinks.

Methinks the person telling this story had already been served one too many.

[Larry_Mudd]

@SteveMB

This is a rather blatant violation of security procedure, not to mention common sense.

There’s a good article today over at Salon, in which their regular airline writer (a commercial pilot) weighs in on the Annie’s tale. Here’s what he has to say about that bit:

Are we to believe not only that an airline professional was unwise enough to reveal such a thing, but that a group of marshals – not one, not two, but several – having gotten word that a covey of Arabs were flying to LAX, were on hand to trail and observe them? That’s some tight logistical planning. Are we following Middle Easterners through airports now? If so, how does that work at Kennedy International, I wonder, where foreign airliners carrying thousands of passengers arrive daily from Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Egypt, Morocco, the UAE and elsewhere? That’s a lot of dry runs, and there’s no love lost, after all, between Muslim radicals and the governments who own and operate these airlines – Pakistan International, Saudi Arabian, EgyptAir, Royal Jordanian, etc. Such subtleties are lost on that segment of the public who’d prefer a more digestible cock-and-bull yarn from high above the American heartland. As for those wacky airlines from abroad, why not simply ban them from American airspace?

[Sarcastro]

Regardless of the motives of the writer of that piece (my opinion: hysterical nonsense), I think it’s pretty unlikely that al Queda would put such a large number of operatives on a single plane. The chance of a secret being kept has an inverse relationship to the number of people who hold it. It would be extremely stupid of a group of terrorists to be so unsubtle about what they were doing.

And even if that was their plan, why don’t they just book an entire flight - or hell, charter one - and take it over? No messy passenger interference there!

[MLS]

FYI, here’s even more info about the Syrians. The writer actually tracked down the identities of those involved.
A couple of interesting quotes from this article:

Liberals will likely decry the suspicion and interrogation the musicians faced on Flight 327. And the principled Right will regret that that was necessary. If the band’s English wasn’t very good they might not have understood the instructions. But a polite word and some helpful gestures earlier on, rather than a guilty PC silence, might have saved them some embarrassment. In any case, the police-state parallels fade quickly: In a real police state, like, oh, Syria, you are not even allowed inside the country with an Israeli stamp in your passport.

June 29 was no ordinary day in the skies. That day, Department of Homeland Security officials issued an “unusually specific internal warning,” urging customs officials to watch out for Pakistanis with physical signs of rough training in the al Qaeda training camps. The warning specifically mentioned Detroit and Los Angeles’s LAX airports, the origin and terminus of NWA flight 327.

That means that our air-traffic system was expecting trouble. But rather than land the plane in Las Vegas or Omaha, it was allowed to continue on to Los Angeles without interruption, as if everything were hunky-dory on board. It certainly wasn’t. If this had been the real thing, and the musicians had instead been terrorists, nothing was stopping them from taking control of the plane or assembling a bomb in the restroom. Given the information they were working with at the time, almost everyone should have reacted differently than they did.