I did not say you, I said you people. this means the posing on the boards.
I mean I see it here all the time.
Maybe not from you, but from many others repeated again and again.
so I am sorry, it gets on my nerves…
since I never said there was one cause, indeed I pointed to the non ethnic factors already – so I do not feel obliged to pepper my highlighting of the neglected factor with repetition of what is already the known concern.
That sounds like a cop out, it’s as if you’re implying ‘Well if only they had good jobs and opportunities etc’ Then they wouldn’t become suicide bombing jihadis, however, if we apply that logic to non Muslims, you’d of seen a similar sort of pattern emerge with them also, yet we don’t, it also implies that Muslims are inherently more violent than the rest of society, and can only be placated by money being thrown at them.
Ramira needs to recognise that a section of the Muslim community has chosen to follow a life choice that does not include none Muslims, it is their choice and we must respect that decision. But please do not complain when a Arabic speaker cannot find a job surely if he wants to work he will learn the language. As for cv’s I have been there nobody employed people living on my estate so you used the address of a friend. Our local church holds English classes for the large Nepalese community and they are heavily over subscribed, are mosques holding classes to teach the local language (if not why not) surely the mosque is the centre of the local Muslim community and should have this very much in hand, is it not a part of the Mosques pastoral care?
Cop out? When in history has a lengthy recession which leads to a mass of un and under employed youth not had deleterious consequences? The question is not money or jobs as such, the question is lack of opportunity and the perception that things are not going to get better.
You do have political unrest all over Europe, in Greece, in Spain, especially Catalonia, in France itself. In France and Benelux however, you have that and a despised minorit, which increases the potential for violent unrest. You saw something similar in N Ireland when the Troubles were preceded by economic slowdown, as the large industrial concerns laid off people, increasing Catholic discontent.
So in this culture, which already has a lot of prejudice against Muslims (an example of which might be the belief that people who wear the hidjab are giving a conspicuous sign of desire not to assimilate), your solution is for the French government to force French businesses to hire more Muslims?
Surely this generates additional resentment in non-Muslim French, as well as an improvement for the people who subsequently get jobs. Can you elaborate why you think the net result is an improvement even for Muslims in France, not to mention the whole country?
I can’t claim to understand this particular bunch of idiots too well, but I’ve never seen a terrorist campaign that was well-thought out. Even those which did achieve their objectives had objectives which were thought out of their planners’ bottoms, with short-term objectives that put them in a worse position to reach their long-term ones.
“This company does not discriminate by reason of religion or national origin” does not equal “this company has set aside a quota for Muslims and children of immigrants from majority-Muslim countries”.
One of my former clients had an absurd amount of women, much higher than the national averages for its sector. It wasn’t because they actively seeked to hire women, but because, since they would hire the best person available even if that person happened to be a woman, they had a lot of good candidates their colleagues wouldn’t consider.
It is not only the Muslims. I live in Germany. If you look at the Neo-Nazi scene here, you find similar patterns: People who have not succeeded in life gladly follow a philosophy that tells them it is someone else’s fault. Some of them get radicalized to a point where they do not shy away from violence against their perceived opressors. So I do not think what **AK84 **posted is really a cop out. There is more to that.
Punishing discrimination is hardly the same as imposing a quota system.
What a giant load of horse shit. Most “Arabs” in France have either lived there since they were small children or were born there and speak French perfectly. Hell, most 2nd and 3 generation French North Africans probably speak vastly better French than they speak Arabic.
Back at you Ibn Warraq, I am commenting about those who lack language skills and if they do not wish to learn the language of the country they live in, it is their choice and we must respect that. My question that you choose to ignore is, are Mosques organising language lessons to help mosque members better them selves. Problems with gaining employment. I am part of a group that finances a skills café. it is a meeting place for a coffee and a chat they also help people to improve their computer skills, write cv's and help prepare for interviews. Are mosques working along these lines. with respect if not why not
I do not live in a nice middle class home I live on an estate where one in 4 children live below the poverty line. It is a question of organising and working for change not moaning that nobody is doing it all for you
Yes, potential, but we’re not seeing widespread **actual **violence by Europeans.
All of which I wasn’t denying. I was saying it’s disingenuous to assume that if only the Muslim population was placated with money and jobs then that’ll somehow prevent terrorism. This narrative is also highly condescending to the Muslims themselves, suggesting that they are only able to cause violence in order to achieve whatever aims they are going for.
No doubt the troubles were exacerbated by economic woes, but it primarily was due to the political imbalance and oppression of the Catholic minority by the Protestant majority, not bad economic opportunities.
And it’s the same pattern for the radical independentists in Spain. “My life sucks, it’s Madrid’s fault”. Heck, for hooligans too: “my team sucks, it’s the other teams’ fault”.
We have a sentence for it, originally said about common criminals: la sociedad es la culpable (it’s all society’s/everybody-but-me’s fault).
Ryan_Liam, some of the guys who have been involved in these attacks, of the people being detained for recruiting for ISIS, etc. had European citizenships: are they not European?
Sure they’re European, in name only, point I was making is that it’s kind of condescending to the Muslim community in the EU to assert that the main issue of Jihadi recruitment is due to lack of opportunities and jobs, it kind of reduces their mindset to one based on materialistic gains, and completely ignores the other motivations of them wanting to do things like what happened a few days ago.
Which leads me to my other point, you don’t see non-Muslim individuals or organisations go as far as Jihadi organisations in attacking civilian targets in the same intensity, you used too, until recently, but it has since tapered off. Why?
In the same intensity? Definitely. The Utoya massacre had every bit the same intensity as anything we have seen from Muslim terrorists. Frequency is a different matter. The number of fatal attacks by Muslim terrorists is currently higher than those coming from other groups. The Donald Trump school of thought would love to pin this on the religion, claiming that it somehow causes people to become violent. But given the fact that Islam had the same dogma thirty years ago when most violent terrorism came from leftist groups, I find that unconvincing.
I’m not saying Islam is the problem here, just the Muslims in the form of a community have had similar problems that plenty of other ethnic groups have faced, who of which didn’t resort to the same level of violence just because they didn’t have access to the same sort of benefits native Europeans did, so just because there’s been a recession doesn’t automatically explain away Jihadi terrorism, which is a simplistic argument, and kind of offensive the Muslim community itself.
I want to share this well - written piece. It reflects well how most reasonable people around me think about the terror.