Terrorism. Ignorance is best.

Great Debates
1

People talk about why the terrorists did what they did. They say we need to understand the root causes and that this didn’t happen in a vaccumm, and that their may be valid complaints against the U.S., it’s actions and its policies. Not that these excuse the actions, but we need to be cognizant of the issues.

Other people, like myself say that we don’t care, and we don’t even want to know, and aren’t interested in discussing it.

Smugly, we are called ignorant, or accused of hiding our head in the sand, or being jingoistic. They tell me that this is the kind of attitude that started terorrism against the U.S. in the first place and that…

and I stop reading.

And, I’m told that I’m being knee-jerk, or a warmonger, and how could I argue against greater understanding…

And, as I listen to this, I burn with an inner rage of frustation at the stupidity of my fellows.

Terrorism is simply an attention getting device. Terrorists want to get us to pay attention to things that are important to them, to their causes.

I don’t want to learn about or understand the terrorists causes. I don’t want to know how unfair we’ve been to them, or how hard they had it.

You see, if I do, that proves that terrorism works.
It does bring attention to those causes and plights.

I think that taking a hard line to something like the WTC is the most appropriate course.

I don’t want to know what they care about, or why, or what they seek. As far as I’m concerned, they have just assured themselves that they will never get it.

Again, I speak not out of vindictiveness, but from common sense. Terrorists must never gain sympathy or concessions or publicity for their causes through their actions. Otherwise, terrorism works and we will never be safe again.

All we need to know about the motivations of terrorism can be seen in a pile of rubble in downtown NY.

2

We also saw it in Chile in 1973-what’s your point?

3

Did you really not get it?

4

Yes, I do. more of the same we don’t need to know, all we know is they hurt us, so we hurt them back.

5

This stance frustrates me as well, becasue it explains nothing.

Let’s pretend that all of the sudden, we magically and completely understand all motivations and factors leading to the WTC disaster.

What – is that supposed to change our military response?

The average American on the street may not fully understand Middle Eastern politics – and they don’t have to – but our decision-makers in the hot seat do. The root causes? Terrorists motivations? I believe they are FULLY understood and accounted for by our leaders and advisers.

Even so, with that understanding, we will make our way by force, because it is necessary. Small-scale pin-pricks of force, but force nevertheless.

6

No. That’s not what I said. At all.

The most frustrating argument that you can have on these boards is when somebody deliberately misconstrues you’re meaning, or pretends you are arguing something you’re not.

Please don’t do it.

Publicizing or giving credence to terrorist’s motivations or causes validates their actions. It makes their tactics successful.

Encouraging terrorists to kill more people is a bad thing.

7

When my son does something bad, I’ll punish him for it.

But by ghod, I want to know why he did it.

8

This idea is similar to the way that I, as a nanny, deal with temper tantrums. It doesn’t matter what the kid wants. It doesn’t matter why she wants it, or whether or not I was being reasonable when I said no. Temper tantrums are not appropriate behavior, and they should never be rewarded.

Terrorism is like a huge-scale, highly destructive and tragically dangerous temper tantrum. "So you won’t change your foriegn policy? I’ll kick and scream and throw things until you do! Unfortunately, the consequences are much worse than bruised shins and broken toys.

Nonny

9

Scylla: Please clarify something for me. You say that you “don’t want to learn about or understand the terrorists causes.” While I agree they don’t deserve to be validated by such sentiments as “there may be valid complaints against the US”, I’m always wary of those who pass up an opportunity to learn something. Would you agree that their beliefs, methods, the pathology of this virulent scourge should not be studied so that we could better combat it? Just as the FBI will study serial murderers and train experts in this field, is there not something to be learned?

And a note for those that wonder if US policies have contributed to this attack, please specify which policies. I’m talking about the policies the terrorists object to, not the policies you personally take issue with. Please try not to mind read.

10

Scylla is proud of his ignorance.

You, sir, are guilty of exactly the same thing that
you accused others of:

I’ve heard no-one who advocates understanding the root causes also say that we should not punish terrorists. How you get from one idea to the other still eludes me.

11

That’s reasonable. I feel the same way with my child. I feel that way because as a child my daughter is not her own person yet, and I am responsible for her and everything about her. I need to understand her motivations.

My daughter loves to read books with me. I love to read with her. Sometimes however she is impatient and wants to read at times when it’s not appropriate.

On occasion she will throw a temper tantrum to get her way.

Every parent learns very quickly that giving in to these temper tantrums is a bad idea.

So, the net result is: The one and only way that my daughter can ensure that she will not get a book read to her is to throw a temper tantrum.

Likewise the purpose of terrorism is to create fear and garner attention to their motivations and causes in the attempt to gain concessions.

IMO, the act of terrorism makes the motivation behind it moot. Their causes and motivations, their desires should get no attention.

Then again the relationship between parents and children is different than that between states.

I’ve known coworkers who use terrorist tactics, and I think that might be a good analogy.

I have a coworker who wants the bigger office that happens to be vacant. She has been told that she does not merit it, but she claims she needs it. Her tactic has been to move things (a filing cabinet and a couple of record boxes) from her office into the adjoining common area where they look bad and inconvenience other people.

If you tell her that her stuff is blocking the area, you here about how she needs the bigger office.

She is deliberately causing other people problems in the attempt to get attention to what she wants.

The “why” no longer matters. Her behavior is innapropriate in and of itself, and unjustifiable. She should not get what she wants through these kind of tactics and her lobbying should be ignored.

12

Speaking for myself only, I am positive that such study has undertaken by the USA for over 30 years.

The terrorist mindset is no mystery. The problems of the Middle East are also well-understood by those who need to know to make decisions.

A lot of the studying and understanding helps in the aftermath of a “war”. The U.S. can look back on its former policies, see the problems, and then resolve not to repeat them. Perhaps a new Marshall Plan is called for as well.

But “studying” and “understanding” the political problems of the Middle East have no real relevance to any immediate miltary strategic planning.

13

Several posters have placed overbearing restrictions on U.S. military action they would support. For example, many have said that any and all civilian casualties is 100% unacceptable (most recently by Guin in the Pit).

To me, it is a very short step from saying the above to saying that we should just let the terrorists go free. It’s not quite the same thing – but it’s close, to my ears. But maybe that’s just me – I just cannot concieve of punishing the terrorists where they lie WITHOUT incurring some civilian deaths, not least of all because Bin Laden and his ilk will use civilians as human shields.

After all, while everyone seems to support the punishment of the terrorists were they magically served up to us on a silver platter, not so many are in full support of the kind of messy, not-so-precise extraction operation that is almost certainly necessary. If it is a given that the terrorists cannot be served up and brought before a court of law (and I’ll take it as a given, but YMMV), what more extreme action can you support?

14

Waverly:

The problem seems to be that the tactics of terrorism work specifically because they take advantage of our desire for understanding in the face of adversity.

I say they shouldn’t be allowed to force us to pay attention to cause we would not otherwise pay attention to as a result of terrorist action.

They do these things because they want us to pay attention to and understand their needs. Therefore, we should deliberately not to do so, otherwise we validate their actions and risk perpetuating them.

I am all in favor of understanding their methodologies, psychology, and as you put it pathology. Everything that we need to stop them. I think it’s important though that we don’t accidentally give them what they want by allowing their actions to bring attention to their causes.

By this same reasoning, I don’t buy anything presented to me by a telephone solicitor. I don’t enjoy being called at home and sold stuff. Even if it’s something I need or would be interested in I deliberately do not buy, because I don’t approve of the tactic, and don’t wish to contribute to the success of it. I don’t wish to be on the list of people who buy stuff over the phone that marketing companies sell.

Furthermore, I don’t listen to the sales pitch even and especially if it is interesting for the same reason. I interupt the telemarketer and tell them flatly that I’m not interested in telephone solicitations. Period.

So yes, I’m willing to inconveniance myself and be ignorant in the short term because I gain more in fewer disturbances in the future. I tell them phone solicitation is a negative incentive to me, and it’s practice ensures that I will not buy from them now or in the future.

We need to show the terrorists that these tactics ensure that America will not be buying and will not be listening.

15

Not entirely true. It depends on what your objectives are. To simply drop some bombs, you may need relatively little information. But I recently learned that boys as young as 12 are recruited and taught a perversion of Islam leading them to believe that glory and martyrdom can be theirs in exchange for some innocent blood. The bombs may cut off one head of the hydra, but failure to understand this culture of martyrdom that persists will allow two more to grow back. Useful information, and it in now way validates the terrorist cause.

16

I hate referring to proverbs but,

Or, more appropriately, the squeaky wheel sells you the oil. Either way, my point is that it is impossible to ignore or acquiesce terrorists. Any comparisons to whiny children can be chucked out the window. Any whimsical fantasies involving turning deaf ears on the perps are an invite to further disaster and consequence. We had better find out what makes them tick, and IMHO rectify the situation with a decisive action (though I’m not sure what would be appropriate yet).

Terrorists DEMAND our attention… and we damn well better give it to them via force and punishment vs. acquiescense. Or else this shit will continue.

Scylla: Your proposed methodology works only if you would be willing to exterminate the culture which propogates terrorists. Otherwise you are asking… no, begging for an even “squeakier” wheel next time. Remember, they demand to be heard and recognized.

17

Acco40:

I agree 110%.

Terrorists do demand our attention, and we should give it to them. Their causes, Their desires, and Their demands on the other hand, should be ignored.

18

Disregard bombing – that’s not how the extraction of terrorists is going to be executed.

As for keeping the hydra heads from growing back, for the short term, that is neither an immediate military objective nor an immediate military tactical concern. Such concerns will, for certain, be handled by diplomats and humanitarian organizations down the road. As I said before, the fruits of understanding the culture begetting terrorism will be come forth only during the endgame of the terrorist extractions, and afterwards.

19

I think “what makes them tick” is already common knowledge in decision-makig circles. It certaily is being taken into consideration. I’m not sure why anyone would think the U.S. is in the dark about any of this.

20

And perhaps what is most chilling about Sept. 11 is, not only have we not received a laundry list of demands, no one is even claiming responsibility for it.

Getting U.S. troops out of Saudi Arabia; disavowing Israel; none of it makes it so we don’t have any more Sept. 11-type atrocities.

Our enemy just wants to hurt us. They want us to suffer, and to die. Men, women and children. Civilians.

The only level of understanding the United States should want about that is one that allows it to better eradicate them from the earth by any means necessary, as quickly as possible.