It occurs to me after seeing all of the carnage caused in the name of terrorism lately that I really REALLY don’t understand what the message is that’s trying to be conveyed.
I see a LOT of suffering, I see a LOT of dedicated, meat based, suicidal bombs, but I don’t see a reason for the terror.
Yeah, sure, I can understand that the Evil Americans are Evil and must be stopped, but the thing is, we’re not stopping. Nor are the Europeans…or the Africans, nor anyone else that’s been a target.
We haven’t stopped travelling, we haven’t stopped shopping, we haven’t stopped trading.
IF the point is, you can rain thunder from the heavens and have a big effect on our economy, Hey, I’ll buy that. Could you stop it now?
If the point is: you desire to hurt people to get your point across, violence only begets violence. If your problem is the Great White American President has brought pain and suffering to your people, I (nor the folks in Lockerbie, or NY, or Spain) have ANYTHING TO DO with that suffering.
Or perhaps I’m looking for western logic in a situation where western logic just doesn’t exist. In any event, I don’t see a good solution, and the terrorists don’t seem to be running out of suicide bombers.
The terrorists know they can’t “win”, that the decade West won’t topple through their efforts alone. But they can spook us and make us uncomfortable and frightened, which is why they do what they do.
Or, to quote from a movie I’ve seen more times that necessary, “We might not take them down, but we can give them one humongous repair bill!”
We haven’t stopped travelling, we haven’t stopped shopping, we haven’t stopped trading.
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Not true. American travel took a nose dive immediately after 9/11, and it’s only in the past few months that tourism travel has recovered. It could be argued that 9/11 is the main reason discount no frills airlines have shot to success, because with far less overhead they’re the only airlines able to operate in North America with any profit at all.
As for shopping and trading-- um… what do you think the economy is based on?
I think the point I wasn’t making too clearly is: They HAVE an effect on the economy, but the world isn’t going to close up shop and stop operation due to the terrorist activity.
I think what’s so frustrating is: This is not a war with a well defined enemy. You can’t just reach out and stop them…and yet, I have no idea what they’re fighting for.
I dont see their points either. They want peace but yet kill to get it and spread terror? I also love how they call themselves freeedom fighters many times. To quote George Carlin, If firefighters fight fire and crimefighters fight crime, what do freedom fighters fight? Terrorists have basically just become an untangible enemy that just kills randomly. What message is there in that?
According to news reports, the ETA (Basques) have been doing this for 40 years. Back in 1995, I was in Madrid right after a bomb had gone off in the shopping district. As far as I can tell they have gotten no results from their actions. Maybe they are afraid we will all forget they exist without the bombs going off and they just might be right.
They don’t want peace. They’re frustrated and desperate and powerless and feel themselves trapped in a corner. They can talk all they want about overthrowing their enemies (us), but they know there’s no chance in hell they’ll succeeed – they just want to inflict some damage while they can, to not go down without a fight.
Terrorism isn’t a cause, it’s a tactic. Nothing is done in the name of terrorism. The cause for Al Qaeda is Islam, for the ETA it’s a Basque homeland, for the ELF it’s animal rights, etc.
Different terrorist groups have different agendas. If you lump them all together, of course it won’t make any sense.
That IS the point. Al Qaeda and other Islamic terrorist groups think they’re fighting in the ultimate war between good and evil. They’re not expecting their enemies to roll over and quit. They figure if they provoke the West into attacking enough Islamic countries, the Muslims of the world will unite with them and destroy the evil forces once and for all.
Terrorism is simply the only weapon these people have with which to fight back.
Let’s say that Israeli tanks are steamrolling your town, aided by soldiers armed to the teeth. You have no weapons and throwing rocks will only get you so far. What do you do, bend over and take it like a man?
If the tables were turned, are you sure you wouldn’t sacrifice yourself to strike a blow at the enemy, albeit a small one?
I’m not saying I’m condoning terrorism, obviously, but there are times when I totally understand why terrorists do what they do.
Not all terrorists are comes from those kind of conditions, though. The September 11th hijackers, for example, were not poor or living in occupied countries.
The September 11th hijackers were people who were seeing more and more islamic countries being overrun by Western civilisation or invaded, hence destroying their way of life. Way of life. Ring a bell? I believe the US has gone to war “to protect the American way of life” before and I’m sure they will again. The difference is that they terrorists don’t have nukes or vast armies so they use what they have.
I’m not blaming the Americans for anything here, I’m just saying that if you look at things from the other perspective things tend to look a little different.
In the case of Al Qaeda and its associates, according to Strategic Forecasting (I highly recommend subscribing to its newsletter if you’re interested in geopolitics), Bin Laden has two primary goals: US out of the Gulf; popular Wahhabist uprising toppling the governments of Muslim countries.
It’s not just a question of hating democracy and our way of life, as so many of the politicians have been saying since 9/11. It’s strategic. And in this case, if it was Al Qaeda, retribution.
“Violence is the last resort of the incompetent.” - Robert Heinlein
I don’t think that statement is 100% correct but I would guess at least 80%.
How many of the terrorists are strategic thinkers and how many are angry pawns who will attack whatever the leaders tell them? Are the leaders smart enough to figure out what the effects will be?
That is probably my biggest objection to violence. Even when it succeeds in its immediate objective. What will be the response and the side effects?
They’ve certainly got a clear understanding of the “people will die and others will be afraid” part. I don’t really get the line of reasoning that says they didn’t expect counterattacks.
I see. So Al Qaeda doesn’t have the ability to, say, convince the West that Islam is the one true religion by educating people as to its principles? Or to convince the people of the Middle East to demand representative government rather than monarchy?
Please, let’s be serious here. Most terrorism is practiced because the terrorists believe the people they kill are not worthy to live because of their religion, culture, or ethnicity.
The fact that their culture is pathetic and hasn’t invented or produced anything beneficial to mankind (art & architexture don’t count) and this confirms it.
Unemployable (legitimate) and therefore too much time on their hands.
Some- young, uneducated and stupid and easily brainwashed.
Unemployable (legitimate) and therefore too much time on their hands.
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I think you hit the nail on the head. When you think of the Palestinians, what the hell do they produce? What is their main export? I know they would say “the world will never know because Israel is repressing us”. But seriously, what the hell are these people known for? Do they have any practical skills, or is their own system of religion and lack of education creating a self perpetuating ‘poor me’ way of life over there.
As far as what terrorism accomplishes, others have basically summarized it well. You are a small group with limited power so no one takes you seriously. The response is to lash out. And if you really believe you are a martyr with a better life in Heavan and that you get “points” for killing the infidels, why not be a terrorist? It’s all how you look it.
If you look at all the random attacks going on in Iraq, I think it’s a two-fold thing. The Saddam loyalists are reminding the average Iraqi that “Hey, were still around, and as soon as the Americans leave, it’s business as usual around here with us back in power”. They also know needless American deaths will make it on the news and they are hoping our own people will harass the government to pull out faster because we’re “just wasting lives”.
