Sorry for the double post, it was the hamsters, not an attack. That said, there’s not much left to debate that hasn’t already been done before. As others have quite clearly pointed out, the only reason to try to “understand” terrorists is so that we can find them and eliminate them.
Gosh Darn Hamsters!
Two things about this incident really stun me.
The first is the perception that this was a wll orchestrated “attack on Australia”. Everything that we know about the terrorist networks being blamed for these incidents suggests that if they were pissed of with my nation and wanted to express that displeasure, they would do something a little more spectacular than blowing up a couple of nightclubs on foreign soil to express their hostility.
Perhaps even more worrying is the ease with which we are accepting the assertions by a previously totally inept Indonesian police force that they have found some of the perpetrators of this crime. It’s too easy, and it reeks of appeasement.
Given the presence of Australian, British, and US law enforcement agencies in Indonesia right now - not to mention the German, Swedish, Israeli and others who have established an observers presence, this trial should be totally public and it should be held to the standards of law which would be required in our own nations.
Let us not accept quick and summary justice against the current suspects. The top people from many of our agencies are over there right now looking for forensic and other evidence. Let’s prove our case with the evidence our agencies discovery rather than settling for the Indonesian government’s assertion that they have it all hand and will deal with the “criminals” they have arrested. It’s sounding far too much like they want us all to get the heck out of their country and are quite willing to sacrifice a few citizens to appease our desire for justice.
And for all the shit which is flying around in our media right now about how various government agencies “should” have warned people about the risk of traveling to Bali, there have been so many “travel advisories” since 11 September 2001 that they have become almost meaningless. A very few people might have cancelled their plans had such a warning been published. The majority, however, would probably have chosen to keep to their original travel plans.
For goodness sake, we’ve had a credible threat to our electricity, oil and gas infrastructure and been on high alert for 10 days now - not many people are going out of their way to avoid driving past those locations.
Until investigations prove differently, my view is that this was an attack on a part of Indonesia. My heart goes out to the people injured in the attack, the dead and their loved ones, and the large number of Balinese that will have their livelihood’s effected by this.
I’m sick of hearing that it is an Australian thing. It may be about us, but until there’s any reason to think so, let’s not try and make us feel more important, o.k. As Reprise pointed out, if they wanted to attack Australia, there’s an abundance of ways they could’ve done so much more effectively.
I was against Australia having anything to do with the war in Iraq, and the fact that this incident may be used to support involvement in that war, disgusts me.
Can we all just take a deep breath and wait for some facts to emerge ? You know, before we jump off the deep end with murderous intentions.
Great post “reprise”.
With respect, I would add that perhaps it was not so much an attack on Australia per se, but rather an attack by religious zealouts on what they perceive as the “hedonist godless” ways of Western society. If their goal was to totally rid Western presence off the Hindu island of Bali and to take it over by force with Muslim fanatacism, it might well have worked.
My proposal is this. The US and Aus should either implement a permanent military presence on Bali - complete with airfield and hardware on a par with Diego Garcia so as to provide a striking point in the region - or we should cowardly allow to Bali to be consumed by Sharia Law. And let’s not be politically correct here - the latter is the goal of the Militant Islamists - they want Bali and they want Hinduism out of there.
In short, we either defend Bali to the teeth and turn it into the Rock of Gibraltar of Asia (regardless of Indonesia’s wishes) or we let Bali get run over. Whether we like it or not, it’s a decision which is being forced upon us.
I remain somewhat skeptical of the alleged Al Queda connection. Al Queda wants to do things that play to its “constinuency”. Attacks on America and Israel (or Jews anywhere, for that matter) play to that. I rather doubt more than ten percent of people who are, or like to think they are, Al Queda ever know Australia exists. I’m betting its something else more local. Call it a hunch.
Nonetheless, I think they picked the wrong bunch to screw around with. This has been a very sobering experience, and a sober Aussie is a mean Aussie.
I am also against an Australian involvement in Iraq, but what disturbs me equally is the shriller opponents claiming that it is John Howard’s support of the US that has led to this attack. As has already been stated here, it is unlikely that the Bali bombing was specifically aimed at Australia - especially considering there were other (more minor) explosions that night at the US and Phillipine consulates.
It really was a horrific attack, and it is incredibly sad to read some of the losses that people have suffered, and for either side of the debate over Australia’s involvement in Iraq to use the attack as political pointscoring is reprehensible until we know some more facts.
- Bubba.
Short of there being a coup staged by the Indonesian military - which is certainly on the cards - and our police, military, and intelligence forces being expelled from Bali, they won’t be going anywhere for a long term.
I very rarely compliment anything the Howard government does, but despatching agencies to Indonesia so quickly was a political masterstroke. Not only does it lessen the chances of any “whitewash” by the Indonesian government, it’s diplomatically untenable for the current Indonesian government to ask that we now withdraw them.
Megawati cannot possibly hold onto government without at least the tacit support of the West, and that support will not be given unconditionally (if you believe today’s papers, just about every Western intelligence agency in the world now has a presence in Bali, and the Mossad is in town too).
We may very well find ourselves in the situation of effectively propping up a puppet government in Indonesia.
With the corruption that is endemic in the Indonesian military and security forces, I think that the US and Australian governments could find this a very costly and difficult exercise.
As an aside, I was wondering if anybody saw Alan Jones on the Today show yesterday morning. I usually get a good laugh out of his gibberings, but his comments yesterday were quite offensive - along the lines that we need extra federal police to seek out unaustralian influences in this country and ensure their deportation. His implication was that non-english speaking residents/citizens, and a belief in Islam were ‘unaustralian activities.’
- Bubba
I didn’t catch the Parrot’s comments, but they have been echoed in Piers Ackerman’s columns and - more disturbingly - in “Letters to the Editor” in both of the major Sydney dailies.
Sadly, some Muslims have taken to sleeping in mosques as mosques can be protected where individual homes cannot.
It’s ironic that these events have brought out the very best humanitarian qualities of so many Australians overseas, and yet the very worst qualities in some Australians who were personally unaffected by those events.
BTW, it’s good to see that we mare finally medivacing injured Indonesians - regrettably, we are doing so at a very late stage in the game as far as burns go.
The more I hear details of what happened, the sadder it becomes.
I’d thought the Indonesian victims were being taken to hospitals at the same time as the Westerners. Wow. In a way, though, it’s good that there’s victims to treat. My cousin the motorcycle cop was assigned to ferry ambulances to nearby hospitals on 9/11, but had virtually nothing to do.
A documentary from the BBC just ended on the Discovery Channel here–‘The Ship’ a recreation of the voyage of the Endeavour on a reconstructed sailing ship. It overlapped with 9/11 and everybody aboard was shocked. The voyage was supposed to end, like Cook’s, in Jakarta, but since it just a couple of weeks afterwards the captain announced that the boatload of Westerners would finish up in a much safer place–Bali!
The mostly Aussie and British crew cheered, all innocent, and my heart just sank.
What is possibly unique about this particular incident is the enormous sadness Australians feel for the Balinese people.
While we will grieve and bury our dead, day to day life in Australia will be essentially unchanged.
By contrast, daily life in Bali will take a long time to return to normal if it ever does.
I am extremely proud of my government publicly committing itself to the reconstruction of Bali; whatever differences we have with the Indonesian government, we must do everything possible to ensure that the general population of Indonesia does not suffer any economic turmoil which we can reasonably prevent.
Oh yeah, and kudos to those insurance companies which are honouring claims even though they are legally entitled to reject any claims which resulting from an “act of terror”.
The latest official estimate is putting Australian casualties possibly as high as 119.
One thing I find particularly disturbing is that in the days after the bombing there were more New Zealanders than Australians unaccounted for and yet our media is not making mention of the current New Zealand figures. Given the close ties between our two nations, I find the failure to include our cousins across the pond quite unforgivable.
Excuse me?
We should unilaterally declare Bali an Australia protectorate and build a military presence there? I’m staggered. You do realise Indonesia is a sovereign nation, perfectly entitled to protect itself from any invading foreign interests?
And what’s this about Sharia law? Indonesia is not under Sharia law. Bali is unlikely to “be consumed by Sharia law” in the foreseeable future.
What do you mean by “let Bali get run over”. By whom? Indonesians? Bali is part of Indonesia, you know? Jakarta alone has the power to protect it from being “overrun”.
Utter nonsense.
Gee Narrad, I get the feeling that you think effecting a regime change and establishing an occupying force in a sovereign nation would be a bad thing…
::d&r::
FWIW, I do believe that the time may come when the most sane and viable option for Bali will be to establish independence from Indonesia. I seriously hope that should that time come, Australia will be there to lend a hand to the fledgling nation.
Interesting idea.
On one hand we have the example of East Timor.
And in the other corner… Aceh. 
I would sincerely hope that East Timor taught us a great deal about playing politics in our region.
How so reprise?
My view is that our domestically inspired adventurism in East Timor was a foreign policy disaster. After the fall of Soeharto we should have done everything in our power to support the emergence of civil society in Indonesia. Instead we abandoned hundreds of millions of people to engage in some soft-headed feel-good exercise whose upside is the creation of one of the poorest nations on earth, and whose downside is the exacerbation of ethnic and religious tensions in a poor country without competant authority and with a large, divided and bitter military. This is still a taboo opinion in Australia. I wouldn’t dare mention it in much of the company I keep.
I doubt we’ve learnt anything at all.