The only thing that I see as being conceded in this discussion is your assertion that the process is automatic.
In any case, my only point here was to contrast against the Texas lawsuit and why it does not have standing against one that potentially would.
The precedent that you cited did not state that the plaintiff did not have standing to bring the suit, only that the court had chosen not to intervene in what it considered to be a political matter.
Since the lawsuit is dismissed, I suppose nothing is relevant anymore, but as it was dismissed over lack of standing, I do think that discussion of when a state would have standing to sue another state over its electoral processes is still pretty relevant to the thread.
If you want to start a thread about what other states can do if one state chooses to no longer allow its people to vote on its government and those it sends to DC, I’d probably be happy to weigh in.
I think we can say that the most likely view of the court was 9-0 against Trump. We know two conservative judges would have voted no. We know at least 5 didn’t think that Texas had standing and lastly that no other objection was raised. The most likely reason no objection was raised was that there were none.
This is not always generally true. In most criminal and civil cases in U.S. federal courts, a party has an “appeal of right” to the U.S. court of appeals. However, to go beyond the court of appeals to the Supreme Court, there is generally no appeal of right. You must petition the Supreme Court for a writ of certiorari.
Many state court systems also have appeals of right.
I’m not sure if that’s necessarily good, though. Since Alito & Thomas believe Texas has standing, they felt they should make clear their position on the merits. Strictly speaking, we don’t know the other justices’ position on the merits.
They are irrelevant to the outcome of this case, which is why the other justices did not comment on them. But what the other justices believe about the merits, if someone with standing had brought a similar case, is surely important.
I’m not suggesting it’s plausible that the Trump appointees are such stooges that they might have entertained any of the “arguments” or “evidence” put forward. I’m just pointing out that the nature of the outcome here is that we just don’t know.
Alito and Thomas do not necessarily believe that Texas has standing. They espouse a view that ALL state v. state cases must be docketed and heard by SCOTUS where then any outcome can be had including a decision that a state lacks standing.
But as I noted above, the fact that they specifically stated that they would still deny Texas an injunction means a ruling on the merits. Alito and Thomas know the electoral college meets on Monday. Without an injunction, Texas is (hehe) toast. Alito and Thomas would have allowed the case to be filed and then mooted on Monday.
Since Thomas and Alito are the most conservative justices, I think it’s likely that the other 7 also would have denied an injection on the merits, had they been forced to rule on the merits of the case.
I agree with you in almost all of these statements. It isn’t Trump himself – thank goodness he is a mentally ill, shortsighted, incompetent stooge who will fade away within two years.
The trouble is two fold: first he has a zombie army of registered voters who have no ability to think for themselves - - or at all as far as I can tell. And second, he has the ability to coerce high ranking state wide office holders to do things they know better than to do (at least they should know better!)
A Texas official mentioned red states forming a separate union and possibly succeeding. A protest is being planned in Washington D.C. (last night I needed to tell a friend who longs to go march in that insane protest that we need to drift apart). All the worst things mentioned in the mayor’s office scene from Ghostbusters are possible including dogs and cats living together, mayhem and anarchy.
I do believe Trump will self destruct within a year and become so insignificant. Two years from now, if he is not in prison or under house arrest (if he goes to prison will Secret Service agents be forced to also be imprisoned to protect him?) he will be a sad little king of a sad little hill. But the damage he has brought to the institutions will be hard to undue.
If his supporters recalibrate and start from a more traditional position over the next two or four years we will survive and things will be okay in my opinion. But if the Christian Nationalism movement insists upon continuing to make this a holy war the United States as we have known it is over. There are only three possible outcomes: We become a Christian Theocracy, we reduce that movement down to where they have little political power (which is nearly impossible because they are literally spoiling for that fight and LOVE to feel marginalized and get stronger when resistance is applied), or we split into two or more nations. (NOTE: Now that the religious right has a super majority in all levels of Federal courts, and it is once again safe to say: “Merry Christmas” – if they can be happy with the outrageous privilege they now hold and stop beating their swords against their shields in preparation for all out war, if they can stop feeling picked on and marginalized – well, we may become a sane and functioning nation again. But as long as the Alt-right and Christian Nationalism are bound together and spoiling for battle – we are fucked!)
I still have hope that by 2024 there is some civility in national politics and things will be moving toward tolerance and acceptance and away from tribalism (which is what sports franchises are for!). But even if they are not, Donald J. Trump will be insignificant and hold zero power. By 2024 all those die hard supporters will be saying: “Oh yea, that guy- remember him? Who voted for that nimrod?” The new problem will be the about one half to one third of people who voted for him in November. Many reluctant Trump voters are already turning away from him now. It is what happens with the rest of those voters that really matters. If they retreat and vote in less rabid and numerous droves, or they decide to support someone less insane and damaging all can be well. I believe a lot of them will drift away because they were never really political at all. They were like residents of a town whose team went to the Superbowl (or state championship) – next year they don’t really care about football after all. Remind me about that when the playoffs are almost over.
(After thought: I suspect that while this election cycle broke all records for turn out during a pandemic – in four years there will be millions fewer voters. If the Biden Administration does even a third as much as they hope to accomplish, populism will be less popular because who needs the headache when things are going well?)
They are not the problem, really. A small part of it. It is the daily brainwashing hour after hour of lies and propaganda being poured into their brains by Conservative talk radio and fox news. They are being brainwashed. They really, honestly believe this crap.
That is my very point.
We keep thinking he has already turned it up to eleven. Once he has nothing to lose and perhaps as many as dozens of courts investigating him – he will plug in every amp he has and turn them all up past eleven and strike nothing but disharmonious power chords. He has never been even civil – but he could get even worse. (As hard as it is for me to imagine!)
Do you wonder what and why he has been messing with the military civilian leadership?
I think the consensus is he wanted to pull out of Iraq and Afghanistan while no one was looking. A little less likely but still plausible is so that he can flee to Russia on Air Force One just before the inauguration. I hope that it’s nothing more sinister than one of those two options.
I know they do!
But some in my circle consume NO NEWS at all except from their “Christian videos”. I posted one in this form a while back, they are WAY more extreme than FOX News.
They are far more than a small part of it. They are a powerful association of political power brokers who used Donald J. Trump and convinced millions in the pews to be “Warriors for Christ”. I have been around Christendom for over forty years and I had no idea this was going on behind the scenes.
(Next I hope to read: The Family but I cannot recommend that one at this time.)
Yup, and religious believers of this ilk are the ultimate believers in authoritarianism. God’s will, into which they have unique insight, doesn’t defer to any democratic process or Constitutional checks and balances.
I would like to agree, but the way I understand it he has made additional personal changes again since a command was given and orders were cut to bring those troops home. There is something more going on in my opinion. I hope it will not be disastrous!
It would be pretty funny if Trump got the timing wrong, took off for Russia a few hours before Biden’s inauguration, and Biden ordered the plane turned around mid-flight. I think they pilots would have to return, no? They are military, Trump as C-in-C gives the order to leave, but Biden is now C-in-C and tells them to come back. Whether it’s nominally Air Force One or not doesn’t really matter, it’s military pilots following the chain of command?