Thank you, Dopers and (eventually) Pitters!

The BBQ Pit
181

You know, I haven’t been following PRR’s hijinks on these boards which have apparently made him so unpopular of late. I didn’t think his OP was really incendiary, since I don’t read GD and didn’t ever really know who the hell badchad was or what PRR thinks of religious people. And I don’t give a fuck. Not knowing that stuff, this thread turned into a “take a dump on PRR” fest awfully fast and it kind of surprised me. Sure, he’s a sarcastic bastard who sometimes goes way over the top, but still. Wow. I would say I was shocked by how this thread has gone, but I’m not that naive. The attacks seem really, really personal to me.

I wish I could claim that this is an objective POV but that wouldn’t be entirely true. I have met PRR in real life and he was a perfectly nice guy. We have talked in a limited fashion about real world shit, and he has been quite agreeable and decent. Of course, we didn’t discuss religion, but there’s a reason why polite people don’t. Just another POV on the guy; I wouldn’t post his bail bond for murder or anything, but I don’t think he’s the monster he’s been painted as here. Some of these extremely ad hominem attacks seem just way out of line. You guys seem to forget that a poster’s persona on the SDMB, or any other quasi-anonymous message board, is not an accurate representation of who the person is, nor does it give you some masterful insight into that person’s life that lets you just say hateful shit that’s way out of line.

For example:

Zoe: He is a professor. I am not going to give away any of his personal info to refute your spurious and cruel attempts to discredit him, but I feel safe in asserting this. I think you should back off your strident claims that he’s not based solely on the fact that you don’t like him. It’s too much, and it’s wrong. Safe to say, his command of the English language more than eclipses your buddy Liberal’s (who will now call me a LIAR for saying he doesn’t have the mastery of his mother tongue that he thinks he has-- he likes to throw that word around).

LiberaL: Your behavior in this thread is certainly no better than PRR’s, worse, in fact, due to your offer to pay PRR to leave, and subsequent pathetic weaseling out of it, replete with totally unjustiable self-righteous. I was rather astonished and amused by it. Quite a performance. I wish you would read over this thread and your own words so you can see how bad it looks. If PRR or someone else you don’t like had said the same things you’ve said about that ill-advised $500 buy-off, you’d call him a LIAR. Some self-reflection is due here.

182

[QUOTE=Rubystreak]
You guys seem to forget that a poster’s persona on the SDMB, or any other quasi-anonymous message board, is not an accurate representation of who the person is, nor does it give you some masterful insight into that person’s life that lets you just say hateful shit that’s way out of line.
[/QUOTE]

I, for one, do not believe that a person’s “persona” on this message board is inaccurate. That is, in my opinion, one of the best points of the SDMB. I, again, for one, cannot think of anything I have posted here that does not relect the actual me. Those who wish to create false “persona” are generally soon found out, and good riddance.

As always, when someone comes along to defend someone here, stating, “He’s not like that in real life,” I wonder, “Well, why doesn’t he act like he does in real life?” When (and if) I should meet someone from the board in real life, I want my real life persona to be congruent with my SDMB persona, and why not?

Otherwise, it’s a fake. What does that gain me? Nothing.

183

[QUOTE=Rubystreak]
You guys seem to forget that a poster’s persona on the SDMB, or any other quasi-anonymous message board, is not an accurate representation of who the person is, nor does it give you some masterful insight into that person’s life that lets you just say hateful shit that’s way out of line.
[/QUOTE]
You are right, a person’s persona on the board isn’t necessarily an accurate representation of who they are or how they would act in real life. But it is all most of us have to go on. Now that I’ve read your post, I feel compelled to weigh in on this. There are a fair number of people who I have had heated debate with on the SDMB, and some have pissed me off (as I’m sure I have pissed them off, as well). PRR is the only one I can think of who was sarcastic, condescending, and mean enough to me to actually hurt my feelings.

I am not saying this to be all “boo hoo hoo” about it, because he is just a guy on a message board, who I think probably is a perfectly fine person in real life. And now that I have admitted that he upset me, I assume he is a big enough person not to be pleased about that fact. But I think that you have to realize that people who try to get reactions do get them, and frankly, based on what I see from PRR, the negative reaction doesn’t bug him all that much.

184

Some general comments:

  1. To the best of my knowledge (and I am not a contributor but have known several people who were), Christian Children’s Fund is the real deal: a group that devotes its money (with very minimal overhead, which nearly all charities have some of and they try to keep to an absolute minimum) to providing practical help to children in developing countries identified as needing that help. There is, TTBOMK, absolutely no proselytization going on.

  2. PRR privately provided me some evidence, in response to a question of mine about PhDs, that tends to satisfy me about his bona fides. Rubystreak’s measured endorsement above seals the deal for me. I consider the man’s sneering at anyone religious, however well-examined his beliefs may be, to be arrogance, and his style to vary between calm, friendly exchange and pompous egotism – and some of that annoys me. But I see no reason to continue fricaseeing salamanders – he’s made his point, his rebutters have made theirs, and perhaps we can go on from here.

  3. Communication is a very important skill. Especially on a text-based medium like the Dope. Avoidance of generalizations is another one. An enormous amount of what’s proved out to be error in threads related to PRR, badchad, Liberal, and myself have been through people (including some or all of the four of us) failing to perceive what is being said as opposed to what they/we think is being said, and lumping all [Christians/atheists/Republicans/Democrats/left-handed Lesbian Albanian dwarfs/whatever] into one monolithic group, contrary to fact.

185

[QUOTE=Rubystreak]
You guys seem to forget that a poster’s persona on the SDMB, or any other quasi-anonymous message board, is not an accurate representation of who the person is
[/QUOTE]

If a person is a jerk online where the stakes are so small, the person is a jerk.

186

[QUOTE=Frank]
I, for one, do not believe that a person’s “persona” on this message board is inaccurate.
[/quote]

And I think you are being naive on this topic. There is an obvious, meaningful, and quantitative difference between talking to and relating to people IRL and writing words on a screen and hitting post. The medium is so different. A lot of people do not take internet interactions to heart or see them as being nearly as important or significant as dealing with human beings in real time interactions. It’s much easier to be cruel and awful, or dismissive, or indifferent to feelings of people whose faces you don’t have to see. It’s easier to get entrenched in a viewpoint, categorize people based on a few issues, when you only see them on a message board, probably posting on issues that set them off. You’re only seeing specific, isolated parts of them, not the whole person.

That doesn’t mean bad behavior anywhere in life, including the SDMB is OK. It’s not. But it doesn’t define who you are in the totality of your life. Being a dick on the SDMB does not mean that you are A Dick. You will not convince me that it does. In fact, I’d be a little frightened for you if you did think that.

Man, I’m not saying PRR or anyone is deliberately creating false personae. I’m saying your persona and your role in the community develop, and then you fall into arguments that reinforce that, good or bad. It happens IRL too, of course, and it can be just as dysfunctional. Roles like that can come to define you in your actual life, but I for one am NOT willing to say that role on the SDMB defines who you are IRL unless I actually know you IRL. I feel confident that’s the right way to view message board personae.

I have no idea why PRR is the way he is in the threads that have alienated you. Probably because you and he disagree on an issue that turns him into the kind of person you don’t like. My experience of him is different, partially based on his behavior IRL. Does that mean his RL persona and his SDMB persona aren’t congruent, therefore he’s faking? No. I wouldn’t say so. I think he’s gotten into an unfortunate rut with his posting that has led to a vicious cycle within himself and with other posters who don’t like him. I’m not going to condemn him as a person for it. I am frankly shocked that people would. I can see not wanting to meet him or hang out with him IRL based on his persona on the SDMB, sure. But I wouldn’t go as far as other posters have in excoriating him.

Such a black and white view. Either we can accurately judge who a person is exclusively from his SDMB posts, or he’s a faker. I don’t agree, and I repeat that I think that view takes the internet life a bit too seriously and kind of scares me.

187

[QUOTE=jsgoddess]
If a person is a jerk online where the stakes are so small, the person is a jerk.
[/QUOTE]

If a person doesn’t give a damn about how they come off in a place where the stakes are so small, or doesn’t have great expression skills, or gets into a bad rut in posting, or only posts on topics that piss him off, you think you are in a position to make a global condemnation of him as a person in the totality of his life? Or did you just toss off a comment without thinking it through? Does that mean you’re a jerk?

Of course, I don’t think you’re a jerk. But I don’t think you know that PRR is either in his actual life. Your opinion of how he comes off on the SDMB does not constitute a summation of his actual life.

188

[QUOTE=Rubystreak]
If a person doesn’t give a damn about how they come off in a place where the stakes are so small, or doesn’t have great expression skills, or gets into a bad rut in posting, or only posts on topics that piss him off, you think you are in a position to make a global condemnation of him as a person in the totality of his life? Or did you just toss off a comment without thinking it through? Does that mean you’re a jerk?
[/QUOTE]

If you want to consider me a jerk based on my behavior, that’s fair. I don’t hide behind the internet and claim that I’m really super in real life–or have someone else claim it for me. I’m the same person in person as I am on here, warts and all. Feel free to judge.

189

[QUOTE=jsgoddess]
If you want to consider me a jerk based on my behavior, that’s fair.
[/quote]

I don’t think I know you. I don’t think message board posting alone is sufficient to judge someone.

Ahem, you’re the one who’s being free with her judgments here, baby, not me. Actually, now you’re being rude. PRR didn’t “have me claim he’s super IRL.” OK? If you’re really saying you got this from my post, you have reading comprehension problems or are being deliberately obtuse. This was a reaction based on the fucked up, uncalled for shit being said in this thread. I happen to know the person who is the brunt of this a little bit IRL, enough to know some of the bullshit in this thread is just wrong. I called it out, and called the rationale for such bullshit. I’d hope you’d do the same if you were me.

I think people who think they really know someone based solely on their posts to a quasi-anonymous message board are being a little delusional on this topic. You don’t have enough information. If this assessment includes you, then so be it. Get a grip.

190

It’s interesting that you and PRR don’t take things that are said on a Message Board seriously until they are said about him.!

For months PRR has made claims at Straight Dope about what others have said and posted here. But he will not provide a cite. He can’t because he makes it up.

At the moment I am asking for something which should be very easy for him to prove. Where on this message board did I make the public announcements that he claims I made? He can link to them or once again be shown as a liar.

As for our personas, I have no need to be anyone other than who I am. I met my husband on a BBS message board and we’ve been married 21 years.

I can’t imagine a mentally healthy person wanting to take on the persona of a vicious person. Rubystreak, you might want to catch up on some reading to understand the background. And notice all of the title of this thread.

And again, PRR himself has made claims of being other than a professor.

Where is the cite for those claims about me, PRR?

191

**Rubystreak **- I don’t know you in real life, and I don’t recall having noticed you before on SDMB, but your argument above strikes me as silly and illogical. I would not, on the basis of a couple of posts, leap to the conclusion that you are a silly and illogical person. If I read a few hundred silly and illogical posts from you (and if I actually noticed and remembered that they were all by you), I would probably come to the conclusion that you were silly and illogical.

Let’s suppose that there is a person at your workplace who is an asshole. Whatever attributes make up an asshole for you, imagine a person with those attributes. The guy’s an asshole at work. If you found out through an acquaintance that the guy was charming and witty in his role outside of work as a part-time waiter, would that temper your opinion of him as an asshole at work? It might for you, but not for me.

This is where I interact with the members of the SDMB. Their behavior here, except for one RL meeting with one Doper, is the entirety of their personalities for me. It is all I have to judge anyone on. I have read hundreds of posts by Pseudotriton ruber ruber that have convinced me that he is an aggressively annoying asshole. Here. I don’t give a shit how he behaves when he’s face to face with you.

192

[QUOTE=Rubystreak]
Ahem, you’re the one who’s being free with her judgments here, baby, not me. Actually, now you’re being rude. PRR didn’t “have me claim he’s super IRL.” OK? If you’re really saying you got this from my post, you have reading comprehension problems or are being deliberately obtuse. This was a reaction based on the fucked up, uncalled for shit being said in this thread.
[/QUOTE]

You don’t know if it’s uncalled for, since you are deliberately preserving your ignorance by not reading the fucking threads. So don’t act like you have the whole story when you can’t be bothered to, you know, get the whole story.\

Yes, I’m being rude. Aren’t you going to claim that it’s not really me being rude but just my completely separate online persona and that in reality, gosh, there’s just no way at all to know if I’m being rude?

Fuck it. PRR is a jerk on this board. Your defense can only be that he either doesn’t care how he comes off or he’s incapable of controlling it. Either way, with friends like you…

193

I can’t find the booklet we used to have, but what drew us to the Christian Children’s Fund was its approach to charity.

As you might expect from any such group, it takes care of the child, providing food and clothing and whatnot, but it also deals with the child’s family, community, and environment. It tries to help the family generate income, overcome drug abuse or social trauma, even down to things like home repair for leaky roofs and whatnot. If there is no local school, it tries to get one built and staffed. And it tries to teach families the importance of sanitation and hygiene, helping the community to clean up streets or water sources. Its philosophy is that improving the child’s environment improves the child.

I don’t recall all the details (I bet Edlyn does), but you can even specify exactly how your money is spent, or you can send money earmarked for specific purposes. As to whether they prosyletize, I don’t know. I never thought to wonder. But, the charity is very active in countries like Indonesia and, so far as I know, does not discriminate with regard to sex, religion, race, or anything like that. All our sponsored children are Latin American (of native Indian heritage) and as far as I know, were already Roman Catholic (which we aren’t).

194

[QUOTE=jsgoddess]
You don’t know if it’s uncalled for, since you are deliberately preserving your ignorance by not reading the fucking threads. So don’t act like you have the whole story when you can’t be bothered to, you know, get the whole story.
[/quote]

I am not acting like I have the whole story. But you don’t have it either. The difference here is, you’re acting like you do and I’m not. We have different information and have drawn different conclusions as a result. You think your conclusions is not only right, but the only right one. I don’t. I think that PRR might be a total asshole on the SDMB and maybe an OK guy IRL.

How is that “silly and illogical,” Crotalus?

Oh no, I’m sure you’re being rude. I’m just not going to assume that you are a rude asshole who has no job and who no one in the real world likes just because I don’t like your post. See the difference?

With friends like me, what? I’m not making a defense of whatever horrible shit he said to you, I’m saying, he has a life outside here where not everyone despises him as much as you do. Sorry if that rocks your entire worldview. He should have no friends, either? What did he do to you that you hate him so much? Rape your dog? Slap your momma? He said rude shit to you on a message board and now, you’re so bent out of shape that you’re attacking ME for merely suggesting that he’s not a monster.

Wow. I think you need to fucking relax.

195

[QUOTE=Zoe]
It’s interesting that you and PRR don’t take things that are said on a Message Board seriously until they are said about him.!
[/QUOTE]

I just know for a fact that he is a professor. Polycarp has backed me up on this. I wish you would stop trying to say that he’s not. It seems over the top to me. Maybe he has said and done shit to you that is over the top too, and that sucks. But he is a professor, so just let that one go, OK?

196

[QUOTE=Rubystreak]

With friends like me, what? I’m not making a defense of whatever horrible shit he said to you, I’m saying, he has a life outside here where not everyone despises him as much as you do.
[/QUOTE]

And if you had bothered to actually read the threads, you’d find that I don’t particularly despise him. If you had even read this fucking you’d find that I’ve taken his side against Liberal. Oh, but that doesn’t fit with your pre-planned and so-well-defended ignorance, does it?

What exactly is your point again? That you don’t know what’s going on but are just hell bent and determined to talk about it? And then you accuse others of being naive and not having a clue?

How about you read all of the threads and get an informed opinion. Until then, you’re just yapping.

197

[QUOTE=jsgoddess]
And if you had bothered to actually read the threads, you’d find that I don’t particularly despise him. If you had even read this fucking you’d find that I’ve taken his side against Liberal. Oh, but that doesn’t fit with your pre-planned and so-well-defended ignorance, does it?
[/QUOTE]

Oh, quit being such a bitch. Read my first post again after you’ve done some deep breathing. I said that Zoe was wrong for trying to say PRR wasn’t a professor. He is. Even after Polycarp backed me up, she’s still saying it. WTF? Does that strike you as maybe she has an irrational-level grudge that she can’t even accept that the dude has the job he says he has? He does other things, too, but that his primary job. Accept that, move on.

Liberal is being a douche. That’s the other thing I said. Not a radical statement there.

I also said that I find it a bit much that people believe that they can know the totality of who a person is based solely on their SDMB posts. You said that you could, in fact, know. I continued to disagree. I don’t think I need to read all of PRR’s posts in order to dispute your point about making judgments about people’s real lives based on the SDMB.

You really do need to relax. You’re jumping all over my shit because I’m disagreeing with you on an intellectual point. Please note that I am not excusing PRR for anything unkind or wrong he may have said to you or anyone else. Let’s try to separate this point from everyone’s hatred of him for a moment, OK?

198

[QUOTE=Rubystreak]
You really do need to relax. You’re jumping all over my shit because I’m disagreeing with you on an intellectual point.
[/QUOTE]

I think you need to reread our exchanges in this thread.

Actually, I think you just need to read.

I’m pretty relaxed. I am a bitch, though. See, this whole “judging people by their internet personas” thingie isn’t so hard. You’re 2 for 3!

199

Certainly not, but we can certainly react to their persona on the SDMB. Which is, after all, all that is necessary.

But that’s a good thing. It would be grotesque, to say the least, if half the Pittings of other Dopers were meant to be entirely serious. It’s more like playing the dozens, or at least ought to be.

Regards,
Shodan

200

But, Rubystreak, part of your post was this quote:

[QUOTE=Rubystreak]
Some of these extremely ad hominem attacks seem just way out of line. You guys seem to forget that a poster’s persona on the SDMB, or any other quasi-anonymous message board, is not an accurate representation of who the person is, nor does it give you some masterful insight into that person’s life that lets you just say hateful shit that’s way out of line.
[/QUOTE]
I think the point that jsgoddess is making is that if you haven’t read all the stuff that PRR has posted here, then you can’t know if the “hateful shit” people have said about him is out of line or not. For all you know, the things people say may be deadly accurate…based on their experience. You are basing your assessment of that on one thing (your experience with him in real life, which no one else here has), and everyone else is basing it on something else (their experience with him here on the SDMB, which you could also have, but have chosen not to avail yourself of).

Most of us are never going to get the opportunity to meet PRR in real life. College professor that he is, I’m sure he’s smart enough to know that all any of us sees of him is what he presents here on the board. I don’t think he needs you to come in here and tell us he’s really a super guy in real life…if he wanted us to think that he is, he could easily act like one here on the SDMB.