And if I don’t want to get caught up on the Hate PRR Campaign, what? That’s a problem for you? When did I ever defend his bad behavior on the SDMB? I just can’t globalize that enough to condemn him as a person. That you can’t make judgments of people’s lives based on the SDMB, that’s the only point I think you’re disputing. I think your point is bullshit. I still do, even though you’re bitching at me. Good job.
You jumping all over my shit because I won’t agree with your ability to make personal judgments about people’s lives based on the SDMB… means you need to relax, so sorry if you don’t have the perspective on this to realize it.
What’s so interesting to me now is that PRR’s initial point, which is that people really will cop to some bizarre beliefs and then defend them, and in trying to convince you they are right, go so far the other way that you actually feel BETTER about disagreeing with them in the end… point proven for me.
I specified that the hateful shit I objected to was Zoe saying he’s not a professor, and Liberal’s sickening $500 weasel offer. That was just over the top for me.
Zoe’s was not deadly accurate. So sorry, but she’s wrong. And she can’t admit it. Which is sad and says more about her than it does about PRR.
Oh my fucking god, wherever did I say he was a super guy? I don’t have enough information about him to say that. I had limited interaction with him but all of it pleasant and professional. I said he wasn’t a monster, he was a college professor and perfectly nice to me. This does not, as I have said over and over and over, contraindicate that he could be a flaming dickbag in all these GD and Pit threads where people have garnered such hate for him. What I’m saying is that both of these aspects of him could exist at the same time, in the same person. That people who think they know him from the SDMB could meet him IRL, not know it was the same guy, and think he was OK. It’s possible. Because he is a dickbag on the SDMB does not mean he is a person without worth or merit. That is the sum of my point.
Shodan: Yes, you can and should make conclusions based on how people conduct themselves here based on what you read here. If people had restricted themselves to that, I’d have had no problem with it. Dislike whomever you want, I sure dislike my share. I think some of the treatment here was over the line, and pointed out the two specific examples of it. That is all.
Nothing silly or illogical about that. What I think is silly and illogical is the idea that I should care about the behavior off of this board of someone whom I have never met IRL, and very likely never will. Why should the idea that he might be a professor, or very kind to his mother, or anything else, mitigate the fact that I think he’s an asshole on this message board?
You know what? You need to reread this thread. Now, don’t worry. You’ve read it before, so I’m not going to be fighting your ignorance or anything. I had forgotten that it was you in the thread until the stuffed animal thread came up.
I feel sorry you got yourself into this Rubystreak, it had pretty much died down. Now you will be remembered as the poster that defended PRR.
I think the only way to try to defend someone this disliked is to state your case, keep objective and ignore that barbs tossed back at you. I seemed to have pulled this off without getting others mad at me. Well maybe **Liberal ** & **Zoe ** got a little annoyed, but the rest did not. So even more than my suggestion, we should emulate **Poly’s ** great posting style in these brouhahas.
I am glad you can put to rest the issue of his profession; this was the one part that irked me about the thread. Most of the complaints are unfortunately legit; I just thought the rapid reaction to his Op was unfair. A few of the arguments almost added up to, *‘his Op was trolling because he is a troll and it got a rise out of me so therefore it proves he is a troll’. * I think I appreciated the point of his Op, I did learn he has been a ass in threads that did not involve religion. I still like the guy. Hopefully he does tone down his attacks to specific incidents of offensive religious behavior and reduces the broad brush approach.
But there doesn’t have to be. See, a lot of us here post in a manner that is consistent with how we are IRL. However big a bitch a person might think I am here – I’m that way IRL. I’m as funny (or unfunny) and smart (or not smart) and opinionated. Why would a person be compelled to behave demonstrably differently here that IRL just because “the medium is so different”? Why would we excuse bad behavior arising from cowardice – they do it here because they can get away with it here, or because they don’t have to care about people’s feelings here, because it’s anonymous – when we wouldn’t excuse that behavior otherwise?
Sure, but why would you excuse this behavior? Why does it become less “cruel,” less “awful,” less “dismissive or indifferent” just because it’s on the Internet? It doesn’t. If you are an asshole here, then you are an asshole. Period. Maybe you’re a saint IRL, in every other iteration of your life, but here you are an asshole. And the fact that it’s here and not IRL doesn’t mean you’re not still an asshole. This method of communication may be remote and anonymous, but it’s still real.
On the contrary. We are seeing the whole person for purposes of these Boards. All we know – all we can know – about people who are and remain anonymous is what they say here and how they act here. Why shouldn’t we judge them on that basis? We must judge them on that basis, because it’s the only basis we have. There is no obligation for any of us to invent a kinder, gentler IRL persona that is completely at odds with the person we meet here. And, frankly, I find the whole “But he’s a nice person IRL!” defense to be spurious. Who gives a shit what he’s like IRL? We don’t know him IRL. He’s not being insulting and dismissive and a complete jerk IRL; he’s being insulting and dismissive and a complete jerk here. And here is where we respond to that.
Except that it very clearly does. If you are A Dick in one aspect of your life, then you are, in fact, A Dick. If you’re nice to your sweet old momma but an asshole to everyone else – you’re still an asshole. No one is saying the guy is A Dick all the time – how would we know? – but he sure as hell is a dick in the context in which we know him – which is the only context in which we know him. So granted that we are only seeing one aspect of his life, in that one aspect, he is a complete dick and we are reasonable in categorizing him accordingly.
Think of it this way: If you’re so all-fired to separate out his IRL self and his Board-persona for him, then feel free to similarly separate out the insults and judgments heaped upon him. They are not directed at his IRL self; they are directed at his Board-self. So since you can so carefully draw that distinction, there’s no need for you to import our opinions over from the Board world to the Real world. They are directed at him solely in the Board world. Because that’s the only world in which we know him.
We certainly can accurately judge who a person is exclusively from his SDMB posts for purposes of the SDMB. We work with the information we have, which is all the information we have. Who or what any of us are “IRL” is largely irrelevant. But personally, I find the idea that a person would be a decent kind person IRL but a complete jerk here to indicate a fundamental disconnect in personality. And IMO it’s a species of cowardice – you come and fart all over the Boards when you wouldn’t dare to do so IRL, or know it’s not appropriate IRL, or have enough regard for the feelings of others IRL that you refrain. The idea that we would excuse that sort of behavior frankly offends me. There is no where where people should be allowed to be assholes without consequences. If that’s the experience you want, go find a therapist.
The words we say here have consequences. Real people hear them, and real people remember them. And if that scares you, you might want to step off the information superhighway until you feel more comfortable.
Yes, you did specify those two things, but you said they were examples. Were they examples, or were they the sum of the “hateful shit?”
And although Zoe’s questioning of PRR’s credentials might be a little ill-advised, I don’t see where it’s exactly “hateful.” Some of it actually seemed pretty well-founded to me. And ditto Liberal…you don’t even claim that it’s hateful, you just say that he is making himself look worse than he is making PRR look.
So…what is the hateful shit, exactly? If this was it, then fine…you debunked Zoe’s claim, and you and others have made the point with Liberal. But it seems like an awful lot of defending of PRR, when all you needed to say was “hey, I’ve met him, and Zoe, he really is a professor, and BTW, Liberal, you are making yourself look like a jerk.”
Come to think of it, PRR’s character doesn’t even need to come into it if those were the points you were trying to make.
Maybe so. I never claimed that Zoe’s opinion, specifically, was deadly accurate. I suspected it wasn’t, although, as I said, she has made some valid points.
Oh my fucking god, how the hell were we supposed to know that he is “pleasant and professional” in real life? No one ever said these qualities COULDN’T exist at the same time, we were only saying that lately we haven’t seen a lot of evidence for it, and that in general, most of us think that the personalities we see on the board are pretty indicative of what people are like in real life.
Honestly, I don’t give a damn. But you’re right, it’s a losing fight. I’m not going to continue to try to make it. People I otherwise like and respect, like Frank, jsgoddess, Sarahfeena, Jodi, Crotalus, Shodan, etc., all seem to be arrayed against me on this. So I will keep my opinions to myself for the duration.
But I will say this: jsgoddess, if you can’t see the difference between my feelings about nongoog, and some of the shit that’s been said about PRR, then, well, you need to read a bit too. Some basic primers would be a good start.
Before I totally bow out of this thread, I’m sorry for biting your head off, Sarahfeena. I think you’re cool and don’t want this thread to be an issue with that. I will say this: if you knew someone IRL and saw them getting the snot kicked out of them, with some personal attacks you knew weren’t true and that you thought were incredibly weasely and nasty, wouldn’t you feel like you should say something? That’s why I got involved. The things PRR said on other threads on here might be really bad, and maybe I should read them before I defend him further. It’s hard to reconcile the SDMB image with the real life guy, who seemed perfectly nice. I’m not ready to say the former is the true identity and the latter isn’t. It’s a philosophical question for me more than an actual defense of PRR per se. Hope that makes sense.
My only problem with this is how you could “know” they weren’t true. IOW, I can certainly see why you would feel prompted to speak up if someone you personally consider to be very nice is the object of abuse. But ISTM that you also might wonder what that person had done or said to prompt it. Sure, the attacks may be completely malicious and unjustified – but maybe not. It is hard to reconcile a IRL nice guy with a Board not-nice guy, but it’s worth remembering that we are not actually taking issue with the IRL Board nice guy that you know (and we don’t), but only with the Board not-nice guy, which is the only thing we see. So your very kind defense of the IRL guy is a bit misplaced. We don’t dislike him; we don’t know him.
She was primarily defending his credentials. If I knew someone I strongly disliked was being misjudged, I would still speak up and say something. If it was someone I actually liked, I would speak up even quicker. Of course, I would also tell them if they are being an ass. It is something that many people are willing to do.
I can’t stand George Bush, better known as Shrub, if someone says something that is completely wrong about him, I will speak up and add the disclaimer that I cannot stand his administration.
I feel this is mostly what **Rubystreak ** was trying to do with the first post.
I’m not against you, and I’m sorry I came across that way. And this -
seemed pretty reasonable.
Maybe p r r is really a professor. I can’t remember if I have ever expressed an opinion on whether he is or not. But maybe the difference is that I don’t see accusations that he is lying about being a professor as all that “over the top”. YMMV, of course. But this
is true as well.
But don’t let this make you keep your opinions to yourself.
OK, I can see your POV. I have decided to back down on my defense of him, except that I can stand behind his credentials. I am not going to back off my statement that he was nice IRL. I am not entirely comfortable with thinking I know someone’s true nature from their online persona. Others are. OK. Enough said.
AFAICT, her first post was Post 181, and if that is correct – no, actually, she wasn’t “primarily defending his credentials.” I don’t disagree with the rest of your post – of course you would speak up if you felt someone was being misjudged – but I don’t think this gloss on her posts (as merely a defense of his credentials) is accurate. In my case, I objected not so much to her defense of him, which I don’t really care about, as to her implied philosophical assertion that we don’t have the right to judge by their conduct on the Boards someone we know only from the Boards. I disagree with that completely. The credentials thing? Eh. I don’t know what his credentials are, and I don’t care. Nobody has to prove their bona fides to post here, and in this case, for me personally, my opinion of him isn’t based on his profession and wouldn’t change regardless of what he did for a living.
No. I do think you have a right to judge his behavior on the boards. PRR, the SDMB persona, may well be a total dickbag. You’re totally entitled to say that and to dislike him intensely in that context. Professor PRR, the real guy, might be a decent guy with a real job and all that. The former does not invalidate the latter. That’s my point.
We will have to agree to disagree, I see what you saw, but considered that a small part. Hopefully you see the points about profession and the quickness to “take a dump on PRR” as valid points I took to be the major part of her* post.
Jim
Rubystreak, I apologize, I do not sure if you are male or female and I am assuming female.
I appreciate the apology, thank you! I can see where you are coming from on this. I definitely think you did the right thing in terms of speaking up for his credentials…if you know a fact about someone that someone else is questioning, it is more than fair to say, “hey, I know the guy, and what he’s saying is the truth.” As far as whether or not he is being out of line in his treatment of people on the SDMB, or deserving of so much vitrol from posters, I just think that you can only judge that based on what we have seen of him, not how he presented himself to you upon meeting him once or twice.
I do think that we see sides of people here on the board that we might not see in real life. If nothing else, as you pointed out, we talk about topics such as religion & politics that we wouldn’t necessarily discuss with people we know. People here know more about my views on a lot of touchy issues than people who know me quite well in real life, because I think in real life, it’s more important to be tactful when you disagree with people on major issues. But there is a huge difference between being direct about what you think, and being condescending and rude, and that is what people see from PRR. I appreciate that you want to let us know that he has a better side to him, but honestly, it’s not going to make him much more tolerable when he acts like a jerk.
Wow. I got mentioned in a pit thread I never even read!
I’m a Banker!
Cool.
Yeah, I will be bag man for any effort that is not criminal, and will deliver up the funds via bank check, or Paypal, or an envelope full of US currency, but that last would have to go Registered Mail, to Addressee Only.
Since I lack access to an escrow account, you will have to trust me on the safety of funds storage, but I am not shepherding the money around to earn interest. I will put it under my mattress, in cash if someone insists that I don’t deposit it in my savings account.
Get in touch with me via my board email account, if it really happens. I won’t be reading the thread again.
You did, did you? How? Just curious, since it seems like what happened was you punked out. I think a lot of people would be interested in how you “worked it all out.”
