So how far does $500 go in purchasing arson supplies? PRR has a lot of churches to torch, after all. Liberal might just have supplied the seed money for the Atheist Uprising of 2007!
Except that that isn’t what I did. Yes, I realize you perceive it that way, but still… I would be happy to explain that as well. I’ll do both, right here right now.
This is not to say that you will be happy about either. Or that you will agree. Or that you would have done it the same way. The only thing respect requires is that you understand why I did it. Not that you condone. But merely that you’re mad about the right thing. Okay?
PRR
The most important thing I’ve learned, of all the things I’ve learned here at the Dope, is that atheists, by and large, are not the type of atheists that I was when I was an atheist. I’ve learned that they need draw morality from nothing more than their own good character. I’ve learned that there are good and honest arguments in favor of materialism in general and atheism in particular that are nothing like the feeble arguments I used to make for it. And I’ve learned that Christendom, by and large, is dismissive of atheists at best and oppressive of them at worst.
There was a period of time in which atheists like Gaudere, Spiritus Mundi, Slythe (now Czarcasm), and others greatly influenced me and practically turned me around 180 degrees with their keen arguments and insights. I had no choice but to admit my own failures in light of their rebuttals. And then, along came others, like Voyager, SentientMeat, and more, who made sense of even more nuanced positions for me.
So effective has all this been on me, that I managed to change the mind of my sister, a fundamentalist Christian who understands now that atheists are not evil or of the devil. Not that she pities them, but that she believes they are deserving of all the rights and privileges of anyone else and that government has no business excluding them in any way from participation in the American democracy. She in fact now doesn’t like seeing references to God on our money which, before, she had taken as some sort of validation of her faith.
In short, these people, and people like them have made a difference in the world. Talk about respect — they are deserving of it in all its glory.
Now, there develops a contingent of, not atheists, but anti-theists. Trolls like Badchad. Angry crusaders like Der Trihs. And downright crazy nutballs like Supreme Holiness or whatever his damn name was. And, of course, Pseudotriton Ruber Ruber. Not to say that these all appeared at once, or anything. But over time.
Of those, certain ones stand out — like BadChad and Der Trihs — who, though bearing arguments that I believe are weak, are at least arguing from staunch convictions. They pull no punches in their condemnation of Christianity and all things Christian. Or in DT’s case, in religion and all things religious. Badchad likes fundamentalists.
Standing out for a different reason, to me, was Pseudotriton Ruber Ruber. His arguments weren’t weak. That’s because he never made any. An assertion — a claim — is not an argument. There was never anything beyond the equivalent of “You guys are idiots.” In the light of what I had learned, and what the other people meant to me, I found him annoying to the extreme. Still not enough to cause this sort of ruckus, but nevertheless…
I am in firm agreement with Daniel Dennett, who said, “There’s nothing I like less than bad arguments for a view that I hold dear.”
This guy was ripping apart the good work done by people before him so much that he drew the ire even of so many of the atheists themselves. He was begged repeatedly to just shut up. He made their cause into a bad joke. And they knew it. Running out of the bushes to lob a mud clod at people opposing you and then running away does far more harm than good.
There was some lengthy history of dealing with his passive-aggression before finally cornering him in a GD thread where he made the claim that faith is a choice. The claim was made for the purpose of justifying the eradication of churches, prayer, and other things associated with the faithful. His fantasy, he declared, was that they all burn down. He was opening threads with snarky titles implying how stupid, worthless, and subhuman we were. And he was accusing mods like Tomndebb of institutional favoritism and bigotry.
So, I called his bluff then, much as some say I did here. I challenged him that if belief is choice, then choose to believe. Chose to believe in God right now, and sing me His praises. The guy, of course, ignored me. I reminded him. He ignored me again. Poly brought it up. He began to feel the heat. I brought it up a final time, just to seal the point, and declared that he had been unsuccessful in his attempt to choose to believe, and that therefore his claim was false.
But his passive-aggression once again surfaced. He could choose to believe, he told me, but simply did not want to. Therefore, he declared, his claim was still true. All the while, he was taunting himself as the standard bearer for atheism, on a mission from NoGod to spread the NoWord. He had taken on the noble task of fighting the faithful.
Too much. And then, lo and behold, he opened his Pit thread bashing Tom. And then another Pit thread seeking allies. Poster after poster, in carry-over from thread to thread, pleaded with him to shut up and go away. From theists. From atheists. From all over. I’d had enough.
Given the history of dodging and weaving, I wondered: “Is there anything that would make this son of a bitch shut up and stop destroying so much of the good work done by good people before him?”
Fast forward, and now we’re here. Like I said, like it or not, the above is what you should lose respect for. Not the tiny window you’ve seen here.
ETF
Again, a long history, but a whole different matter. Nothing at all the nature of the other one. Some shades of similarity (a certain level of passive-aggression), but on the whole a completely different dynamic. He/she (I can never remember — not just in this case, but for so many people… so I’m going to flip a coin… she) has hurt me on a personal level, intentionally or not, more than any other single person on this board. Even more than Jodi.
That’s my problem. No one else’s. Maybe not even hers. Maybe I have it all wrong. Maybe I have a persecution complex. Whatever the hell it is, it’s there. I always suspected, rightly or wrongly, that she was one of the participants in the off-board gossip site. The contempt that oozed from her was palatable to me.
Nothing would please me more than to learn that it was all a big misunderstanding, and that we cold just drop it and start from scratch. But so far, I’ve seen not the first modicum of respect, going all the way back. The MO is always the same. A pile-on begins. (No big deal. Everybody gets piled on sooner of later.) And once it gets going real good, she descends.
And not even with the courtesy of a direct assault. It’s always a Luc-type back-handed snark, addressed to someone else, not to me. A complete and thorough dismissal of any concern that I might have in the matter. No regard whatsoever for any consequence to me, emotionally, that the completely pointless addition of her weight to the pile might cause.
And so on and so on… (I’m sure you’re tired of reading by now; I’m tired of writing. :))
Long story short, when she plopped into Lissa’s thread after conciliation and progress had already begun to do pretty much the same routine… I snapped. And here we are.
Again. Might not satisfy you. But disrespect me for what I’m telling you, not what someone else says.
After reading that, I’m seriously considering offering prr $501 to come back.
No shit.
I think we can trust our perceptions a lot further than your tortuous bullshitting. “Blah-di-blah -fought the noble fight-blah-di-blah, and all my nobleness brought us to this point.” Sheesh.
I honest to God do not have the first idea how I could possibly have hurt you on a personal level. Most of the time I don’t respond to your posts at all.
I wonder how that came to pass :rolleyes:
And you think that doesn’t hurt?! I poured my heart into that limerick (post #362, by the way) and not even a :rolleyes: ?
I’m going to go have a little cry, now.
Why on earth you or anyone else would pay any attention to the fartings of a bunch of meanspirited anonymous wankers continues to elude me. If they don’t even have the courage to put their names on their opinions or address their vicitms directly, how are they worth your attention or concern? Why would you even read what they have to say, let alone allow it to affect how you interact with people here? I don’t even know what site it is that’s causing all the kerfluffle, but for the life of me I can’t understand why anyone would the single smallest shit about it.
Well, to be fair it lacked somewhat in scansion…
Honest? I read the limerick and I was rolling my sleeves up and taking my rings and earrings off, but then I thought, what’s a little shit-flippage in the Pit? But I couldn’t think of a suitable riposte (the only thing I could think of to rhyme with “Bryan” was “lion” – clearly not insulting enough), so I just let it lie.
And I see there’s a “give” missing from my post above. Please turn sideways and insert as appropriate.
There once was a Canuck named Bryan,
Whose heart was, well, not like a lion.
When chicks hurt his pride,
He’d run off and hide,
“Why are you so mean?” he’d start cryin’.
Oh, if only prr was here. He loved to debate scansion…
Yeh. I wasn’t gonna say and hurt his feelings, but now that you mention it… 
Liberal, you whiny drama queen, I don’t infest that other place. I don’t snipe at you behind your back. I don’t lurk waiting to leap out upon you. I do hold you in contempt, a contempt you have earned by your own behavior on this board, most recently in this thread. Considering the viciousness with which you lash out at anyone who calls you on your bullshit, hell, anyone you even think, in the depths of your persecution-complexed mind, has show you disrespect, I see no reason to change the impression that you have so diligently built up over the years.
I start out with every Doper in neutral and develop my regard, positive or negative, over time as I come to know them. Your low status in my opinion is entirely of your own doing and arises not a whit from some self-generated pathology.
There now, does that give you sufficient ammunition to fulminate further upon my utter depravity? Does that give you a warm and gooey feeling inside now? “OOOOO, I knew it was ALL HER all along! I’m not to blame! She’s just MEAN!”
Liberal, you are correct, I do not find your reasons for buying **PRR ** off worthy of any respect. As far as ETF, you failed to explain what she did to you and your post against her looks bat shit crazy to me without any background.
I do not know what to tell you. I will not haunt you, bother you or do anything else. This is a simple case of what you did was despicable. If it makes you feel better, I think **PRR ** taking the offer and walking away from the battle he seemed to be fighting stinks but I understand his reasons and he only accepted the offer, he did not suggest it in the first place. I think many posters would have taken you up on your offer.
The best I can do is wish you luck and a hope that some of your friends get you to calm back down again. You are having a bad week. You could have ignored this thread from the start. I have been doing that in several Global Warming threads as I fail to think rationally after a while in those.
Jim
It sure does.
This is fascinating to me. It seems a lot of people dislike Liberal just on principle. I’ve read quite a few of his posts since I’ve been here and I think they’re well-thought-out and well-written.
From what I’ve seen, PRR was militantly atheist, not only battling all comers but starting battles aplenty. ** Liberal** called PRR on the numerous unsupported points and illogical arguments he made, and PRR responded only with froth. Now, I understand how mad people who make bad arguments are when they’re called on it, and that they can become furiously vituperative, but I don’t see why people are piling on in this case. Unless everyone has had his pretensions poked by the poster in question and is still stinging.
Am I seeing the halo/devil effect in action?
Liberal, previously known as Libertarian, has a very long and storied posting history here. One might need to be familiar with many of those episodes to understand the feelings of many of the posters in this and related threads.
There once was a girl named Eddy
Who looked awfully good in a teddie.
When by Liberal dissed
She stood up and hissed
And unlike a cat, is no 'fraidy.
…trying to be a bit clever there with the username mangled and spread across lines 1, 2 and 5. So far, I haven’t a good rhyme for “ContraPuntal”, though if I shorten it to “ContraPunt”, there’s some potential, albeit misogynistic.
I made the mistake of participating in a Doper name anagram thread. I was immediately blasted with “Anal Cunt Port.”
Feel free to use it if you wish.