Well, two words. McDonalds, bankruptcy. The bankruptcy attorneys were doing a brisk business. Kinda difficult to go from paying bills on $65K/yr to $7.50/hr. The cost of living didn’t go down to keep pace with unemployment rates.
Christ on a crutch.
Maureen, there is always a plan B. Sometimes it’s not wonderful. I’ve been there, I’ve done that. I’ve been caught in economic downturns and have been out of work in my chosen profession for extended periods of time. I found other jobs. They sucked, but they paid the mortage and put food on the table.
There is always a way. You just have to look for it.
Clothahump: the plural of anecdote is not evidence.
I have never seen any demonstration of that. All your vitriolic screeds are directed at the left. You have never directed a term such as “partisan whining” to any of our esteemed posters from the right side of the aisle. You have never supported any Democratic positions that I have seen.
What, pray tell, makes you a Democrat?
Do the breakdown by county and metropolitan statistical area. This time of year, the stats are skewed, as many parts of the state which are heavily agricultural have above average unemployment numbers. The 3rd largest MSA in SC is the Myrtle Beach/Horry County area. They just shut down for the off season. Eh. Like Twain said, there are lies, damn lies, and statistics.
1: Kudos for being in the Army for four in your younger years. As far as never having served, I’m finishing my first run (six years, two wars.) Already hit the exams for OTS( :eek: ), just gotta finish my last semester plus 1 at USC to go.
2: That’s right, being in the service doesn’t get you a living wage. Cite? Oh…wait, I have one for you. Lets pull out our handy dandy Military Compensation Calculator! Lets use you as an example. Four years service, family of four. CONUS average. Lookie…income and allowances equals $38,838.36. You don’t think that a hair shy of 40k is a ‘living wage?’ Oh, and remember, part of the impitus of living off base is that (gasp!) you have to pay part of your own way.
3: Times of war are the best times to enlist. If you payed attention in school, did half-assed, and can count to 11 without taking off your shoes, even the ARMY has a few jobs for ya’ that doesn’t involve a rifle. Finance, PA, most medical. Hell, even some ‘combat’ roles won’t get you shot at. Air Defence Artillery? If both hemispheres of your brain are working, you should be able to get into the USAF. If you were REALLY smart (well, not so, but if you thought about it) you’d go Navy and avoid the whole shooting at people thing altogether. Or Coast Guard. Same pay and benifits, and almost never leaving the CONUS.
Actually, I do think its brilliant. You’re bitching about getting outsourced when in India, your company can hire three or four people just as qualified as you for the same overhead? Sorry, it ain’t personal. Just business. Please, try to keep this in your little head. Business isn’t a tool for social equality. Business is a tool to make money. What makes money is good for the business. What costs money is bad for business. I loved it when I was at a lecture given by Milton Freeman (you know, the Nobel Prize winning economist?) I especially loved the outcry from the hundred or so long haired liberal types who got all cranky and whiney when he stated that the minimum wage was the most opressive, anti-minority law on the books. Think about it. Minimum wage goes up 10% (a mere .52/hour.) Payroll for the business stays the same. Whoops…what ten percent of the staff gets cut? Feel good programs and ‘progressive’ bullshit puts less food on the table than a McJob making $7/$6/$5.15 an hour.
Here’s an anecdote for ya’. A guy I know, Roberto “Bobby” Ramos, was born here in Carolina to a pair of illegals. He spoke no English until he turned 16 and had to get a job to help his family make ends meet. Turns out that his mother was hit by a car or somesuch, and couldn’t work. Went to McDonalds and got himself a McJob. He jokingly told me that the first english phrase he ever learned was “Would you like fries with that?” He now manages that same resturant, bringing in $50k or so. Work. That’s all it takes.
He supports Zell Miller? Hey, just because you’re a Dem doesn’t mean you’re Liberal. The Republicans have a term for liberal Repubs, it’s RINO. Look it up, it’s kinda funny.
Zell Miller, is that you?
Oops, sorry, I didn’t realize that you’re a complete fucking moron.
Yeah, I’m a moron because I questioned the OP (where that quote came from) and you were unable to support it? Nice try, you witless little piece of scum.
And we all know this propensity is only limited to one side of the political spectrum. I have never seen any sort of intellectual intolerance from the left.
Yo-Weirdave --I didn’t ignore your post–we posted at the same time yesterday.
Are you always this much of a jerk?
And why do you whine about partisan name calling when you are indeed spouting premises near and dear to the Republican party?
I don’t care what your party affiliation is–but you make one funny Democrat.
There isn’t always a way–and I am wondering here about human fraility. The choices that are made (and sometimes made for us due to circumstances) based on perceived needs or wants. It’s as if the GOP expects the least likely people (the poor) to be able to make the savviest decisions.
Let’s take an example of substance abuse. The well off alchoholic woman can get treatment and support. She has been to good schools and comes from a background of educated people–she has skills and privilege to navigate thru her addictions and come out ok. What of the alcoholic poor person? Where is the detox for her–county jail? Where is her system of support? What happens to her? She is shunned, certainly, and demonized by much of society–Dia knows the GOP doesn’t even want to think about her, much less help her get back on her feet so that her kids don’t raise themselves and end up in the same boat.
Or take the abused woman–the battered wife. Happens at all income levels. Again, the upper income woman may well have more resources needed to escape (if she does)–what of the poor woman? Where is she to go? Shelters cost money and Og forbid it be taxpayer money–even though this is a societal problem.
It seems to me that the GOP answer is “well, she shouldn’t drink. It’s her fault she is addicted.” “She shouldn’t have married an abusive guy.” Huh? OK-as far as that goes–but the reality is that she does drink/marry an abuser (most likely because she was abused or neglected, but maybe she’s just an ass–let’s discount first causes here for simplicity’s sake).
One of my biggest frustrations with the GOP is their lack of dealing with reality. “She shouldn’t have had sex at 16”; “He shouldn’t have done that drug.”; “She should have graduated from HS.” “He should have health insurance, even if his job doesn’t provide it–he should get another job, then.” It’s black and white thinking at its worst. As if something as complex as life could be solved by following a recipe–do this and nothing bad will happen to you. Bullshit.
It’s like an alternate universe. In some other world, people don’t make bad choices and always know the right thing to do. :rolleyes:
Is some of the misery of their own making? Noone denies that–I am not here to make “noble savages” out of underprivileged people. But not addressing the problems does not make the problems go away. Teens have had sex since Adam and Eve; man has tried to alter his consciousness since plants were first eaten. Human offspring need nurturing for longer than any other animal. Preventative medicine is cheaper than defensive medicine. Man has hit woman forever (not all men, thank goodness).
None of this is news. But the GOP does not care, period.
And fushj00mang --this
is highly offensive. I hope you DO get a “medical” person in the armed forces who can count to 11 w/o taking off his or her shoes. Fuck you in spades–you have no idea what skills and brains it takes to be a nurse, medic or doctor, do you? Yep, us ignorant types who know nuthin’–that’s who you want managing your cardiac arrest, 3rd degree burns, land mine injury and subsequent amputation.
I am truly hoping that you and weirdave aren’t the only reps of the GOP here–you are making your party (yes, I include you, Dave) look an ass.
But I’m sure you’re really good people. Really.
Yeah, strawman arguments always play well on this board. Perhaps you should try again.
Uhm, it’s not a strawman when you ask someone to explain a specific quote. If you say “Bush is evil” and I say “Why do you think Bush is evil”, that’s not a strawman. If you say “Bush has had a disasterous effect on the country” and I say “Why do you think Bush is evil”, that is a strawman.
If the OP says that Bush has created a “disasterous financial state” in this country (which he in fact did say), then it’s not a strawman to ask why, nor is it a strawman to reject an argument which does not back up that statement.
Got it? Good.
I’m sorry, has “I know you are but what am I?” ever, EVAR been a valid argument?
Would that be “Republican In Name Only”?
He needs a fig leaf?
Funny. My housing allowance was nowhere near the rate given on that site, even adjusting for inflation - in fact, when I was stationed in Kansas, which wasn’t exactly a high-priced real estate market, my allowance still didn’t cover my rent. And, as I said, I was eligible (and received) food stamps. And when I was stationed in California, even with my COLA, it didn’t cover rent. In any case, even if the pay has gotten better, a living wage depends on where you live - $38k for a family of 4 in Oklahoma’s probably all right, but it doesn’t cut it on the West Coast. And I thought the impetus for the military to let us live off base was that we’d actually serve; if they made married soldiers live in the barracks I don’t see them getting many married people to sign up, do you?
My MOS wasn’t a combat role, but the standard line when I was in was “If they need you to fight, you’re a combat soldier first” - that’s why we did so many combat field exercises, even though I was in a Support Battalion. I don’t see anywhere in your post where you offer evidence that times of war are the best times to enlist - all your examples are certainly true in times of peace, but I’m pretty sure there have been plenty of military forces in “non-combat” roles that have come home in body bags (or maimed) - I’d wager more so than in peacetime. And even if you are right, why would any civilian believe it? Considering all the bullshit recruiters spout anyway, I’d be wary if somebody gave me that line. And there are plenty of NG and reserves in Iraq who thought they’d “almost never leave the CONUS”.
Thanks for the economics lesson - I thought corporations were run by fluffy bunnies whose main interest was the welfare of its workers and local citizenry. I understand why they outsource jobs; that doesn’t translate to workers in industries who get laid off “sucking”, which implies some kind of moral judgement. Anyway, I’m not bitching about my job being outsourced - I’ve got a good job with no chance of that happening - but I always find it odd that many of the hardcore patriotic types don’t seem to give a shit when American workers for American corporations lose their jobs to overseas companies, fucking up American lives and the American economy - I guess as long as you’ve got yours, screw the rest of the people (because they suck for not getting into better industries in the first place, right?). I’m doing well, financially, but when I wasn’t it wasn’t for lack of trying - I worked two full-time jobs for a year just to keep from becoming homeless. Believe it or not, some people do work their asses off and still struggle to get by, and the hatred shown toward the lower class by people like you makes me sick. Your friend was able to pull himself up and so was I - that doesn’t mean everybody who works hard is going to be able to become successful, nor does it mean they’re losers or idiots if they don’t.
Anyway, while I’m highly impressed by your reference to a Nobel Prize (gasp!)-winning economist (wonder when they’re going to start giving out Nobels for meteorology?), I think the minimum wage argument is bullshit in many cases - if the minimum wage increases and payroll stays the same, for a lot of large corporations it doesn’t mean they’re going to go bankrupt if they keep the workers - it means they’re going to make $33.5 billion in profits rather than $34 billion. But I guess, given how you’ve implied money means more to you than people, the thought of that probably makes you weep.
FinnAgain: Experience is the best teacher.
Nope, sorry.
What works for you might not work for others, no matter how you evade the issue the plural of anecdote is not evidence.
Do you really need me to link you to an explanation of the fallacy of hasty generalization? Okay.
My love affair with rabid capitalisim ended years ago. How long do we expect people to work their ass off to learn and develop new technology only to find themselves unemployed and bankrupt as soon as the industry is able to train people in third world countries to do the job for nothing. How many times can we expect people to start over and lose everything before everyone just gives up?
How long before we stop being a technological force because no one is willing to go to school for four years to work for three and declare bankruptcy and start over.
The corporations who export jobs are short sighted and greedy. It will come back to haunt them later.
I have a son, and I dont want him to have to work his ass off to make a life for himself only to have some greedhead toss him in the gutter so he can get a bigger yacht. If it takes more government control of industry to put a stop to it, so be it. Its no longer a dirty word in my book.