I am sorry, but the allusion to the nazis used by the OP is gratuitous & unfair. If it was not meant- why was it used? The OP has compared an entire freaking FAITH to the nazis. That is simply wrong. It is perhaps, IMHO, the most egregious act of trolling I have seen in GD in some time.
I’m not saying black teenagers are all a bunch of Nazis. But back when Spike Lee’s film about Malcolm X came out, and there were plenty of young blacks running around wearing X tee shirts and baseball caps, it did remind me very disturbingly of Nazism. I kept wondering how the people who approved of that would feel if tens of thousands of young whites around the nation had started wearing caps and tee shirts with Confederate battle flags on them after viewing the film Gettysburg.
Of course, mass movements of any kind scare the shit out of me. When people started running in herds, watch out.
Actually, DitWD, it was NOT a comparison between the faith and the Nazis. Careful reading would have shown that it was a comparison between the ARMS of the faithful and the ARMS of the Nazis. That’s all.
Benny Hinn! There is a smart man. He believes that Adam could fly, that women were meant to give birth out of their sides, and that Jesus was a financially wealthy man. He also wished for a “Holy Ghost Machine Gun” to slay those who doubt him and don’t agree with his teachings.
Peter Popoff was caught and I believe convicted of a crime, but now is out and back out preaching. As is Jim Baker.
No, he compared one group of people to another. He compared a group of people giving the Nazi salute by putting one hand in the air to a group of people who also put a hand in the air in, what appears to him/her, a salute-like fashion. There was nothing mentioned at all of the faith of the people or the intentions of either party.
Of course, there was nothing worthy of a GD in the OP either.
There is a HUGE difference between folks holding BOTH arms up, over their heads, more or less up, and waving them back & forth- and folks with one arm, at right angles, in a stiff salute. And do not try to sugarcoat it. The OP compared the nazi salute to Christian arm waiving. The two do not look similar, and there was absolutely no justification for the comparison. IMHO he made the comparison to get exactly the reaction he is getting. And, what do we call that?
I made the comparison because I thought it was funny. When you were pissed, I was surprised, because to me it was nothing more than the equivalent of a sight gag. No trolling involved.
By the way, my apologies to all for the big OOPS in putting a GQ on GD. Big bonehead me forgot where I was.
Actually, Daniel, it does look similar. In fact, I’ve observed to myself, MANY times, when the ads for “Songs 4 Worship” comes on late at night, that it almost looks like a Nazi salute. Sure, I know for a fact that it is not, just as the OP does, an ACTUAL Nazi salute. But it does look similar.
Lets get real. A Nazi salute is a stiff arm stiff open palm thrust direct at 45 degrees or less forward, and lasts all of about 2 seconds. Christians extend there arms** upward**in all sorts of manner and usually for considerable extended periods.
And, of course, words such as “similar”, “almost”, “know for a fact that it’s not,” have meanings that indicate a difference.
Also, at many Nazi rallies, the salute lasted for a fairly decent amount of time.
Again, the OP doesn’t say that “Christians are Nazis,” nor does it come CLOSE to saying this. It merely asks what should have been a GQ, and draws a visual comparison between the two. It’s only superficial. Nothing more than that.
Danielinthewolvesden said:
As has already been pointed out to you, this is not, in fact, what was done. Are you going to apologize for your erroneous statement?
In all fairness, I think it’s clear to see how the title of the thread could reasonably be considered “trollish”, and insulting to those of the Christain faith.
[hijack]
You know, regardless of what happens at Nazi rallies, the Nazi salute isn’t a Nazi salute at all. It’s a Roman salute. It dates back to the Roman Empire, and prior to the 1930s, it was not at all uncommon to see Americans salute both the flag and political/military heroes with it.
Looks like the Nazis were able to ruin both the peaceful swastika and the Roman salute for all subsequent history.
[/hijack]
[continuing hijack]
Stop me if I’ve told this story before. I was in the wedding party of a (now-converted) Hindu man marrying a Jewish woman. As a tribute to his heritage (and to score major mommy-points!), they decided to have two ceremonies – a traditional Jewish wedding and a shortened version of a Hindu wedding. My job was to position her orthodox relatives where they wouldn’t see the swastica on the coconut.
[/hijack]
The “arms upraised in prayer” has been around for a long time.
Now, we tend to think of hands clasped, or hands palm to palm, as indicating prayer. Think of all those sugary sweet Precious Moments-type figurines of cute little children saying “now I lay me down to sleep.”
The earliest Christians, however, prayed with their arms upraised. Early Christian art depicts people praying looking as if they are attending some fabulous surprise party.
The best picture I could find of this online is at:
http://www.wisc.edu/arth/ah201/28.earlychristian.1.html
The pictures are small, unfortunately, but the 4th example is “the good shepherd” and the central image is surrounded by the 4 evangelists, each praying with his arms upraised.
While it might be associated primarily with pentecostal denominations, some Roman Catholic congregations use it as well during portions of the service.
Well, since the Nazis were a militaristic movement, I’m gonna guess they had incentive to procure really high-quality arms. The “faithful” might be a little too inclined to just hope and pray for deliverance, rather than investing in weapons.
The Op sez he did not mean to actually say that Christains are nazis. But he agreed “that he made the COMPARISION becuase he thought it was funny”. Thus, even the Op admits he made the ‘comparison’. I do NOT think that Pismon actually thought that Christians are anything like nazis. But he used that word, and the comparison (IMHO) for the shock effect & the reaction. Funny? I think not.
pld- I thought, and I could be wrong- that the roman salute was bringing your right fist in, and striking you left breast with it. However, i also do not think the nazis made up that salute.
[slight hijack, complete with apologies]
Danielinthewolvesden, are you SURE you want to get into a debate about comparisons with Nazis? I mean, I only ask because of http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=56215 and its contents. Here’s the snippet I’m talking about
If I were in the Pit, I’d call you about the most disingenuous poster on this board (in much meaner terms), but since I’m not, I’ll summarize my thoughts: you disgust me.
Quix
[/slight hijack, complete with apologies]
The Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn took shape in England in the 1880s and 1890s. It combined magickal rituals from a number of sources. For each of the four elements they did a special hand-jive. Fire was a triangle, apex up, on the forehead. Water was a triangle, apex down, on the chest. I forgot what the one for Air was. But the one for Earth was exactly identical to the infamous Nazi salute.
As this was practiced at least half a century before Nazism was invented, I see no implication of fascism in the Golden Dawn. But as is well known, Nazis drew upon much occult and esoteric material, and it would not be surprising if they appropriated the magickal gesture of Earth for getting power over the earth.
BTW all the Hindu swastikas I have seen were rotating clockwise, while the Nazi version rotated counterclockwise. The difference is of major significance in Magick. Clockwise movement is like the sun, meaning light and positive constructiveness. Counterclockwise movement is negative, darkness, and destructive. Pity the poor Hindus in the Western world, forever having to explain that their beloved auspicious sign of “well being” (su-asti in Sanskrit) has nothing to do with Nazis!
DITWD said:
I replied:
He replied back:
You know, Danny, you’re not a very good liar. Because, you see, a good liar wouldn’t post shit like this when it can be easily checked by simply scrolling up the screen.
When he posted the line you quote, he was not talking about your original claim of comparing an entire faith to the Nazis. He was very clear in having said he was comparing the arm movements, and that was all.
So, we have to wonder, why are you continuing to beat this poor dead horse, and even going to the extreme of lying in doing so? All this just to avoid apologizing for your mistakes?
david- The OP compared a well known part of a religion, with a well known part of the nazis. Thus- he did indeed, compared Christianity, at least in part, to nazism- at least a part of it. He said as much. And, IMHO the actual reason for this comparison, even if “just a part” was to excite controversy- which it did. There was no legit reason for any comparison to the nazis.
If I started an OP, that asked why the Hasidic Jews wear all black, and compared that wearing of black to the Nazi SS uniform- I would be SOOOOOOOO banned my first post would likely be erased, and the “SDMB mafia” would come out to my house to break… my computer. 