That's not the President -- he's an imposter!

Inspired by the movie Dave, which aired on TNT this weekend:

Scenario 1:
It’s revealed that George W. Bush was incapacitated a year ago and replaced by an uncanny duplicate who’s been acting as president ever since. What happens to all the legislation that “Bush” signed? What would the criminal penalties be for the imposter and anyone who knew of or participated in the deception? What other fallout would there be, aside from the obvious jokes about how Bush wasn’t the real president anyway?*

Scenario 2:
Same as above, but it’s revealed that Clinton was impersonated by a double for the last two years of his presidency.

Scenario 3:
Same as above, but it turns out that FDR was a double for the four years prior to his death (yes, his double ran for president and won under his name).

I’m mostly interested, in all of these circumstances, on the status of executive orders, legislation and other stuff that the “president” signed, enacted or otherwise brought into official being.

I’m not saying I agree with the jokes, just that they’d fly fast and thick.

As to Scenario 1, the legislation fake Bush “signed” would become law anyway, since the Constitution provides that all bills passed by the Congress automatically becomes law after 10 days, even without the President’s signature (which in this case would mean Dick Cheney, even though no one would know he’s President). The real question would be what happens to the legislation fake Bush vetoed (which also happened in * Dave * as I recall) . Since the “real” President never vetoed it, I assume it would automatically become law.

As for criminal penalties, I don’t know. I suppose there might be some kind of general fraud provision in the US Code for impersonating a government official, which one would assume includes the President.

Aaahhh… no.

Legislation that is passed by Congress, but not signed by the President fails. This is called a Pocket Veto.

The situation you describe is one that the Founding Fathers did not forsee.

I’d guess we’d “wing it”.

Bosda Di’Chi of Tricor, you are hereby sentenced to repeat Civics 101.

A pocket veto only occurs when Congress is not in session. When the president fails to sign a bill and Congress is in session, the bill becomes law.

See here.

  • Rick

I’m afraid you appear to be mistaken, Bosda.

I confess!

My Bad!

I also went out today without my rubbers on.

In a nice way, I mean. :slight_smile:

Warning: IANALBIDLRRL*

Allow me to address myself to the first scenario. In American law, there is something referred to as the de facto officer doctrine. If a person holds an office and it is later determined that the office-holder’s actual authority suffers from some procedural defect (for example, a judge is appointed despite being statutorily ineligible for the position because she doesn’t hold a law degree), the office-holder’s acts that are done within the scope and by the apparent authority of her office are still binding. See, for example, Gates v City of Tenakee Springs, 954 P2d 1035, 1039 (Alaska 1998) (holding that an appointed pro tempore judge was a de facto judge with authority to enter findings, even though he did not meet state residency requirements for being a pro tempore judge).

“The de facto doctrine springs from the fear of the chaos that would result from multiple and repetitious suits challenging every action taken by every official whose claim to office could be open to question, and seeks to protect the public by insuring the orderly functioning of the government despite technical defects in title to office.” Ryder v United States, 515 US 177, 180 (1995) (quoting 63A Am Jur 2d, Public Officers and Employees sect 578, pp 1080-81 (1984)). Obviously, there is great appeal in invoking the de facto officer doctrine if, say, massive portions of a presidency are improper, meaning that just about everything the executive branch did in the last three years was invalid.

However, there’s two key differences here between an imposter president and cases that apply the de facto officer doctrine. First, being an imposter seems to be much more than a mere technical deficiency or procedural irregularity in appointment. It’s one thing if the President turns out, after the fact, to have been just under the age of 35 or if some of the electoral votes necessary to his election were on red paper instead of blue paper, or whatever. It’s another thing entirely to pose as someone else entirely. I think part of the rationale for the de facto officer doctrine is that the mistake was in good faith. With an imposter president, the mistake is not in good faith; indeed, to call it a “mistake” misses the mark, for what we’re dealing with is out-and-out fraud. There’s far less reason to trust an officer’s acts were reasonable if that officer achieved his office through fraud, as opposed to by means of a good faith mistake.

A second difference is the fact that the Constitution is involved rather than a statute. Article II, section 1, provides that the executive power shall be vested in a president. One president. Playing switcheroo with the person wearing the President hat seems to be playing fast and loose with the concept of a single executive officer. Consider Ryder v United States, 515 US 177, 180-84 (1995) (refusing to apply the de facto officer doctrine to the authority of a judge when there has been a trespass upon the constitutional power of appointment, rather than merely a misapplication of the statute providing for the assignment of already appointed judges).

Thus, it would seem that the imposter president is not a de facto officer. Thus, every action the imposter president took is invalid for want of authority to do it. This would be catastrophic, as it would appear that the acts of all executive officers nominated by the imposter president would also be invalid. This is why scenario (2) would be less dangerous. At least the imposter Clinton already had executive officers in place. They’re actions would be valid, as they were duly appointed.
*I Am Not A Lawyer But I Do Look Remarkably Rat-Like

Here’s an earlier thread in a similar vein–if anyone’s interested:

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=39784

I keep coming back to this: the Constitution provides only one solid way to remove a sitting President: impeachment.

But a faux-President isn’t really President. Doesn’t that make him unimpeachable?

And let’s say that the faux-President refuses to admit he’s an impostor. Then someone has to prove he’s an impostor.

I think that Bill Clinton proved that sitting Presidents are immune from criminal suits, but I’m not sure of that.

But if a President is immune from criminal suits, then Congress has to impeach the faux-President, and in so doing they have to recognize him as the President, don’t they?

We’ve had election thefts (Hayes), criminal election rigging (Nixon), an incapacitated President (Wilson), and a completely unelected President (Ford) in the past, and in none of those circumstances was the legislation put forward by those Presidents ever seriously questioned.

It’s a long shot, but those precedents might actually work in favor of making an impostor President’s actions legitimate.

One of the very early decisions of the Christian Church was that acts of a priest (marriages, etc.) are valid, even if it turns out later that the guy wasn’t a “real” priest.

Meanwhile, I’m sure a lot of you remember the staple of sixties’ sit-coms – “I Love Lucy,” “The Flintstones,” etc. etc. – where the couple find out that the priest/minister/J.P. that married them was an imposter. “Oh, no, we’re not really married!”

Yeh, yer really married. (Although Dennis the Menace sure is a bastard!)

Trinopus

Off subject, but Hayes was dutifuly elected was he not? I remember his election went to the House of Reps and it went back and forth until the tie was broken (by one vote, IIRC). And Nixon didn’t rig any elections, he was just looking for information to blackmail, or so I’ve always thought. And Ford wasn’t the only unelected President was he? Wasn’t Johnson (Andrew) unelected as well? And what about John Tyler?

I’m really not trying to bring politics into the discussion, but I though the only President who we know for sure that comitted election fraud was Kennedy (Nixon did lead a election-reform after his losing the Presidency in 1960)? If this is unanswerable due to the potential for politics to creep in…disreguard it. I no wanna cause problems. :wink:

Sofa King, I’m not sure I understand how Bill Clinton proved that sitting Presidents are immune from criminal suits.

The President has absolute civil immunity from damages actions within the “outer perimeter” of his official responsibility. Nixon v Fitzgerald. The rationale for the immunity was that the executive function would be severely impaired if any action later determined to be unlawful exposed him to personal liability. However, a sitting President can be sued for conduct that took place before the President took office. Clinton v Jones. The rationale there was that since the suit didn’t implicate any of the President’s duties, the primary rationale for executive immunity doctrines – to avoid rendering the president unduly cautious in the discharge of his duties – didn’t apply.
So here’s what I think. A sitting President enjoys no immunity from criminal prosecutions while in office for behavior before assuming office. Article I, section 3 provides that an impeached officer may still be subject to criminal prosecution – so if he’s impeached for it, then he can still be tried. Further, a criminal prosecution would not be much more of an interference than the civil action in Jones, while the public interest in prosecution would be even greater than the public interest in having the civil action go forward in Jones.

Besides, the President can always get lots of work done in jail. Less distractions from ringing telephones and lobbyists wanting a moment of his time. It’s just like going off to Camp David, but in an orange jumpsuit.

So here’s my guess. Imposter-president is indicted, tried, and convicted by whichever federal or state prosecutor has jurisdiction over the area in which the imposter committed his pre-assuming the presidency crimes (i.e., agreeing to conspire to impersonate the president). Meanwhile, Congress will probably have to impeach the imposter-president as well. I know, I know, the imposter’s not the “real” president and thus doesn’t have to be impeached, but I don’t feel really comfortable with saying that one branch can displace another branch without going through the constitutionally provided channels simply by labeling one an “imposter” and then denying that person the constitutionally designated forum for refuting such charges.
Sofa King, as far as your precedents for making the acts of the imposter President legitimate, I’d have to narrow the list. I don’t think that Wilson and Ford would count. They were bona fide. Hayes and Nixon, on the other hand, were not in good faith (assuming the accuracy of the charges levied against them). So they wouldn’t be able to seek the refuge of the de facto officer doctrine.

Hayes’ election wasn’t decided in the House, a la Jefferson and JQ Adams.

In 1876, several states returned conflicting sets of electoral votes. If the ones in dispute all broke Hayes’ way, then he would win by 1 vote. After much political wrangling, Congress, both Houses of it, decided to refer the disputed votes to a special commission of five House members, five Senators, and five Judges.

The commission was supposed to consist of 7 Dems, 7 Reps, and 1 independent. But the independent had to drop out and was replaced by a Republican after the Republicans agreed to several compromises and all the disputed votes were awarded to Hayes by an 8-7 margin.

There was election shenanigans aplenty by both parties in 1876. However, Hayes was supposed to be personally very honest.

could the president pardon himself from jail?

netscape 6 said:

Not in my scenario. He’s impeached. Article II, section 2, clause 1 provides that “The President . . . shall have Power to grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offences against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment.”

Generally? We can certainly see political constraints on his ability to do so. But could the President pardon himself if he were convicted, while sitting as president, of a crime committed before assuming the presidency? (I’m guessing he’d pardon himself right after spending that first night in jail and deciding he’d rather sleep in the White House than the Big House.)

I’m not sure. The idea that the pardon power is part of the executive power stems from English political theorists. The Crown had the power to pardon. But the Crown never would have to pardon itself; the Crown was immune to prosecution. Neither could the Crown be susceptible to civil actions unless the Crown waived sovereign immunity.

But the president, unlike the Crown, does not possess absolute immunity in the same sense the Crown did. So is the president’s pardon power likewise limited? Unless I can come up with a sufficiently good reason, I’d think not. One might say, but hey, if the prez can pardon himself, then what’s the use of saying he’s susceptible to prosecution to begin with? My answer would have to be that the political reality of such a situation would be determinative.

Besides, all of this is academic. I highly suspect that any court hearing such a suit would cry out “political question!” and run for their mommies.

i was wondering that after reading your post. nice to know.

These analogies are not quite apt, except for President Wilson.

President Ford was never elected, true, but his confirmation as Vice President and succession to the Presidency were entirely constitutional, regular, and untainted by fraud. No analogy there.

Presidents Hayes and Nixon did get into office using (or by their supporters using) some questionable tactics. But so did most other presidents. History is full of corrupt political machines that manipulated politics, up to and including presidential politics, in their states: Tammany Hall in New York, the Pendergrast machine in Missouri, the Daley machine in Illinois, the Johnson railroad in Texas . . . the list goes on. Sometimes the questionable tactics may even have occurred with the candidate’s connivance. But in each case–usually despite at least some public awareness of fraudulent tactics–the president got into office because the states certified their electors for him, Congress counted the votes for him, the President of the Senate declared him elected, and the Chief Justice swore him in. Absent a rival who could claim those indicia of constitutional and regular accession to the office, each president was undoubtedly president both in law and in fact, and personally exercised the office.

The one exception was President Wilson. For months during his second term, the gravely ill Wilson convalesced hidden from the public. His wife controlled access to him and, according to several sources, effectively exercised the presidential office while the incapacitated president languished. Vice President Marshall, fearful of being seen as a usurper, rejected advice that he inquire into the situation and perhaps assume the presidency. President Wilson eventually recovered and resumed his duties, never questioning any action that had been taken during his convalescence. But most historians suspect that Mrs. Wilson was really running the country for several months.

You’ll have to do a bit of digging to find the exact files, but Peter Beter was a crank who had a regular “audio letter” back in the 1970’s in which he made the claim that President Carter had been replaced by a Soviet built robot. Beter was dead serious about this, and spent a good number of his audio letters talking about it. Beter also had a heart attack and died while reading his last letter on the air.

I don’t think anyone has addressed the OP’s third scenario. What if an imposter, using a fake identity, was elected President? If his fraud was later discovered, would he be able to claim that it was irrelevant because he had been elected even if people thought they were voting for someone else? You could even conceivably have a case where the “real” President was found alive but couldn’t take over the office because he wasn’t the man who had actually been elected.

Has anyone else read Double Star by Robert Heinlein?

IANAL, but if the fake prez won the next election, then I’d say that he’s now the real president, albeit one who is using an assumed name.

As for the first scenario, if the guy who is sitting in the Oval Office is revealed to be an imposter (because the real Dubya died while snorting cocaine or something), then he’s not the president, and I don’t see why the FBI or the DC Police or whoever can’t just haul is ass off to jail on fraud charges. There would certainly be an investigation by Congress, and anybody who was in on this scheme would be in deep trouble.