I disagree (also just my opinion, of course). Even though going to the Pottery Barn isn’t bad in and of itself, to say that would be pushing a stereotype. Maybe not all that offensive, but it does seem kinda off.
Trillionaire, on the other hand lame really isn’t a legitimate term for physically disabled folks any more. For horses yeah…people no. Lame for people went out with Tiny Tim
I used to use the word gay negatively, but haven’t since about fourth grade.
Now i’m the person who always says Really? I thought it was LESBIAN. My friend Rose always does " really? isn’t that a GOOD thing?"
Most of the other Queer people who have shared an opinion with me on this are irritated by the use of the word “gay” as a generic insult.
Indeed, when I do high school class workshops with Allies Montreal (demystification of homosexuality and ally-building), “that’s so gay” is something that comes up a lot. The kids seem fairly responsive to the argument that it’s homophobic to use the word “gay” as an insult. I occasionally get the “we’re not talking about gay people” argument, but I refer to “jew down” and the point comes across fairly clearly. (As for “ghey” :rolleyes:, it wouldn’t make it that much better to spell it “djoue down,” now would it?)
Annoyingly, this seems to be cropping up in French now too: apparently “c’est tellement gai” or “c’est tellement fif” (=fag), equivalent to “that’s so gay” in usage, are frequently used in francophone high schools in Montreal.
I’m not thrilled about it’s usage (am bi), but usually it’s just kids using it in that sort of perjorative way. Not that that’s an excuse. I don’t think they view it as anti-gay, rather it’s one of the phrases that’s “in” now. Eventually, it’ll disappear. The thing is, what can ya do? That’s the kinda thing that makes adults say, “blah, blah, blah, I’m not making a speech.” Kids hear, “blah, blah, blah, I’m making a speech.” Then they roll their eyes when they think you’re not looking. Little bastards.
My (then) younger teenage sons were very fond of using such exclamations a few years ago. They saw it as the cutting edge of wit and sarcasm, and ‘You’re/that’s so gay’ was injected frequently into all sorts of interactions with their siblings and friends (many of whom have since come-out btw). Initially I tried admonishing them by telling them it wasn’t a cool put-down , but it was so commonplace, I gave up in the end and hoped they’d eventually outgrow it.
Just the other day though, the boys and I were mucking about with some good-natured banter happening between us, and** I** dropped the, ‘That’s so gay’ line about something or other.
The looks on their faces were priceless. "Mum, you do know that is just NOT COOL don’t you? We know you meant to be funny, but puh-leeeze :rolleyes: ".
Ah, sometimes they come back to bite you on the bum!!
Guy #1 Playing Mortal Kombat: Do you know how I know you are gay?
Guy #2 Playing Mortal Kombat: How?
Guy #1 Playing Mortal Kombat: You get offended when a 14 year old says that having to ride the school bus is gay.
Guy #2 Playing Mortal Kombat: Do you know how I know that you are gay?
Guy #1 Playing Mortal Kombat: How?
Guy #2 Playing Mortal Kombat: You take the time to post a weak movie reference on a message board concerning the use of “gay” as a negative desciptor.
I have to disagree with this. When someone calls somebody a dick, they’re not saying that the person is unpleasant to be around because they possess the perceived personality traits of a private detective. In that case, the two meanings of the word are independently derived.
In the case of “gay”, which along with “fag” was a very common insult when I was in junior high in the mid 80’s, we all knew exactly what the meanings of the words were, and the reason for using them as insults: “you, based on your appearance, actions, clothes, interests, attitudes, athletic skill, etc., are a limp-wristed, peter-puffing, ass-ramming homosexual who should be taunted and shunned.” The “gay=undesirable” meaning came directly from the “gay=homosexual” meaning. “Gay=happy” never entered the picture.
It’s interesting to read, that depending on geographical location that using the word gay as an insult does have a lengthy history. We never used it when we were kids, but we did use faggot, or other allusions to homosexuality in a negative way, hence my thinking that using gay was a new thing.
You know what, it didn’t affect MY opinions of homosexuals at all, even though I used it countless times myself.
I’m still getting the “we’re recaliming the tools of the oppressors” arguement from some members of the gay community, much like the gay community adopting the pink triangle as a symbol.
This is a really crappy analogy. Of course using “lame” to describe something negatively isn’t offensive to people who are disabled. Why? Because being disabled sucks. No one is trying to claim that having legs that don’t work is just as good as having legs that do work. No one would rather be in a wheelchair or on crutches than be able to walk. Being lame is an unambiguously bad thing, and those who are lame will be the first to tell you that.
Being gay, on the other hand, is not a negative thing. It’s not worse than being straight. It’s not better than being straight, either. It’s just different than being straight. Using the word “gay” to describe something negative is offensive because being gay is not, in and of itself, a negative thing. At worst, it’s value-neutral. The vast majority of gay people are happy being gay, and don’t view their sexuality as a detriment or a drawback, and resent implications that they should feel this way about themselves.
Do you have any substantive proof that “jewing down” refers to Jews? I mean, it seems patently obvious that it does to me, but then, it also seems obvious that using “gay” as a derogative refers to homosexuality. If one term requires a cite, it seems to me the other two should require one, as well.
Now, all that being said, I honestly can’t get too worked up about this particular usage. It’s just such a minor issue, compared to all the ways that genuine homophobia can damage someone’s life. I don’t think that it “creates more homophobes.” I don’t think it’s a reliable indicator of homophobic intent. It’s kinda stupid and immature, and you shouldn’t use it in mixed company because a lot of people do find it offensive, and one should always try to avoid giving offence where none is intended. But it’s a very, very minor issue as far as I’m concerned, and one that will correct itself if we could somehow solve all the truly important gay rights issues that face us in today’s society.
I’m gay. I do not like when people use ‘gay’ as a negative describing term. It is very common for me to here it from guys I’m working with or around. my reaction varies mostly based if I want to potentialy start an argument or not. If things need to get done I let it go. If nothing is going on I let the person know they are an ignorant fucktard. For most occasions my responce is ‘what does x(subject of the insult) being y(reason for the insult) have to do with me.’
It totally disgusts me, and I call kids on it at school ALL the time…
It’s nice to be an openly Gay High School teacher - the kids actually get to know a Gay person, and comments like “That’s so Gay” suddenly mean something real to them…and when I tell them as a Gay person I find it offensive, most of the time they stop doing it around me…
I’ve even seen some of my students walk into the room and say, “thats so Ga… Oh, umm, sorry, I forgot… I’m trying not to say it any more”…
One more reason that Gay teachers NEED to be out… Education doesn’t happen just with books…
hey, stout, don’t be so straight.
straigth is also used in a negative way to imply stuffy and uptight. As a straight man, it doesn’t particularly offend me.
“gay” as a derogatory term has generally come to mean “corny” or “lame”. Of course it’s offensive! You don’t call someone “gay” or “faggot” unless you are generally trying to offend them!
there is a difference in my mind between calling someone gay and saying “god this movie is so gay.” I don’t think it is offensive and I say it fairly often but to me it is a synonym for sucks. I’m straight if it it matters.
I mean to say there** is** a difference.
Damnit nm I said it correctly :smack: :smack:
Miller, yes technically “lame” doesn’t carry the same impact that “that’s so gay” does, in this day and age. As was noted above, lame seems to apply more to horses, and personally, I can’t remember seeing it applied to humans since the last time I saw an episode of Lassie.
There’s a lot of people who’ll give you an argument against your assertation that being gay isn’t a negative thing ( religious fundamentalists for example ) and although I understand your mindset, and what you’re saying, unfortunately there’s a significant percentage of the world who haven’t caught up with that attitude yet.
I googled “Jewing down” but I couldn’t come up with and definitive proof that this was meant to be a racist insult, but. you’re right, it is pretty obvious, especially when taken in context of how the term is used. There’s also Indian giver, and gypped ( from gypsies ) that reside in the same vein.
Boytyperama…as a gay man ( I assume by the boy part ) what’s your take on the whole reclaiming the word idea?
Daffyd…So far it looks like educators are the group most opposed to using the word this way as part of a larger anti bullying strategy. Really I’m not so fussed about this as an issue when it comes to adults, but I sure wouldn’t want to be a school aged queer youth.
Queer= a great example of a reclaimed word.
Sapo, point taken, I am being “straight” about this, on this thread, but I don’t take the descriptive as an insult at all. I know it’s a minor issue in the grand scheme of things and even if IRL i was straight in the way you meant, then I still wouldn’t take it as an insult because I’m not in any way, a part of an oppressed minority.
Pool, i guess that would depend on the movie, Bareback,oops Brokeback Mountain could be accurately described as being gay without the negative connotations, but if I were gay, I’d be offended that you equate my sexuality with “sucks” [ pun intended ]
I agree completely with Antinor01, Otto, and other like-minded posters here.
And while it may be true–and probably is true–that “X” number of people who use the term to mean lame, crappy, or whatever aren’t associating those things with being gay, I consider this usage to be offensive.
(And to whoever mentioned the term “jewing down,”–though I think it was Otto–thanks, 'cause I thought that was definitely on point. I am so grateful that I haven’t had to deal with that term for quite some time.)
I have a dear friend (actually, my closest male friend)–a 26-year-old, heterosexual, Marine corporal–who knows that I’m gay and who’s very cool with it (I even joke about wanting to bed him–or he *thinks * I’m joking) 
, and when he, in a conversation a few months ago, used “gay” in the way that’s being discussed here, my reaction was, “Dude, I know that you don’t mean blah-blah-blah, but still, it ain’t cool.” He verified that he wasn’t using it to slur gay people, but he got my point, and he doesn’t use it anymore–at least not with me.
And in terms of choosing one’s battles…while I might not bite the head off of someone who I heard use “gay” in the “lame” way, said person might get a quizical WTF kind of look from me.
Oh, and WRT the “lame” analogy…I totally agree with levdrakon. (Wow…I think I can hear angels singing.)