That seems a reasonable thing to be mad about.
Watt should be suspended for that hit. Do the Steelers teach spearing to their players? I don’t recall Watt ever playing like that at Wisconsin. Mitchell and Shazier do that stuff too, and so does (did) James Harrison, Polamalu and Ward.
So , then, let’s have a discussion about what constitutes a “dirty” hit compared to one that ought merely be penalized.
I will concede that TJ Watt’s hit may have warranted a penalty, although it was uncertain because Hundley ticked the ball in and was looking to run. Runners are afforded no such protection from helmet-to-helmet hits. But even if he could have been penalized, does that automatically make a hit “dirty”?
I think we know when hits are intentionally brutal and intended to injure. That one last night was so awkward looking that I can’t imagine it was intentional. Was it “dirty”? It certainly didn’t rise to the level of Burfict trying to end Antonio Brown, which everybody but our resident Bengal fan immediately recognized as “dirty”.
Is “dirty” nothing more than “hit from a player on a team I hate”, or does it actually mean something?
I’m not sure what definition of spearing you’re using, but it doesn’t mesh with the NFL’s definition. Watt never led with the crown of the helmet, nor did he leave his feet to do so (though that’s not in the definition, it’s a pretty quick way to make any hit questionable in the eyes of the refs and viewers). Minus the helmet to helmet incidence, it’s a textbook tackle.
The question lies in whether a quarterback is considered a runner while still in the pocket. Had Hundley still been standing or attempting to pass, it would be a roughing the passer call, 15 yards and a first, and another overtime game to stop my heart. If he was out of the pocket, no one says anything about it. That he had pulled the ball and seemed to be looking to run throws it up in the air. With the nature of that particular game (a bit rough and tumble compared to most), I’m perfectly fine with that call not happening.
It’s a hit that happens several times in every game, and the only thing that makes it questionable is that it happened to a quarterback in the pocket (who looked to be taking off as a runner). If Watt had years of history of such hits, suspensions, ejections, and other shitty actions, then there might be a cause for concern. Burfict is two weeks removed from an ejection for being shitty, three weeks past a fine for kicking a player in the head, and nine weeks free of a vacation for an illegal hit. James Harrison somehow managed to tone down his excesses and reduce his penalties. Burfict just keeps chugging along while a portion of the Bengals fanbase cries how he is a victim.
Vontaze did this to himself, but yes, he is now in fact targeted by the refs, fair or not, because of his actions on the field.
A hit is not “dirty” because it involves a team I dislike. It is what it is. I’ve been accused of defending Burfict, but I admit he’s a dirty player, but also a good one. Look, a certain level of nastiness was always desirable in a defensive player, especially a linebacker. But the game has changed and players like Burfict are an artifact that are no longer permitted.
I just watched the NFL’s dedication to Sean Taylor on the anniversary of his death, only ten years ago. Then I watched the accompanying highlight reel, many of which I have seen already, and the whole time I was like “That’s a penalty, that’s a penalty, that’s no longer legal” etc. Sean Taylor would be a modern Burfict today. Ten years ago we cheered and cringed during the “YOU GOT JACKED UP” ESPN segment they did every weekend. I notice that it’s no longer on the air.
That said, I do honestly believe that the Steelers have engendered a culture of guys that like to lead with their heads. Just because something is technically within the rules doesn’t mean it’s not dirty, like Shazier’s crown of helmet to earhole hit on Giovanni Bernard in the 2015 playoff game that knocked him out. “Oh, but he was RUNNING and making FOOTBALL moves, therefore not defenseless!”
I get that, but there’s no need for these types of hits, not Shazier’s, not Burfict’s, or anyone’s. You could just wrap up and tackle, but for some reason some guys just have to lead with their helmet as a weapon.
Obvious dirty shit like Antonio Brown’s karate kicking the Cleveland punter during a punt return is always going to get flagged (and should have resulted in a suspension). Why is Mitchell’s dirty play not drawing any criticism from the objective Steelers fans? Is it because you truly don’t believe he’s dirty after multiple instances to the contrary, because it’s supposedly “within the rules”, or what?
What exactly are you looking for? A handwritten, tear-stained note stating that the Steelers are the dirtiest team ever? Much dirtier than poor, poor misunderstood Vontaze Burfict?
Do I wish Mike Mitchell (or any Steeler) wouldn’t lead with their helmet? Yes. Do I think any Steeler is as blatantly dirty as Vontaze Burfict? No, he seems to seek out blindside cheap shots.
For the record:
1.TJ Watt’s hit was at best “awkward”, and I don’t think Watt intended to hit helmet-to-helmet. The Green Bay QB was spinning around they happened to collide face to face.
2. Mike Mitchell (admittedly maybe this is black & gold colored glasses): I’ve never seen a good camera angle of the Mitchell late hit on Alex Smith, but I choose to believe he did not simply dive at his knee from behind. If did, he should banned from the league. But, he’s basically holding his hands up as he hits the ground(if it wasn’t a complete acting job) as if to say it wasn’t his intention to hit him. Also, the NFL gave him the minimum amount of fine for the hit ($9,115). My belief (hope) is that he tripped into it.
So, Hines Ward didn’t register on that “blindside cheap shot” meter of yours?
2008 called, they want their tears back.
LOL. And nine years ago, every Steeler fan alive would have denied Ward was a dirty player.
Anyhoo, I am looking forward to our tilt on Monday night. Hopefully there won’t be any dirty plays, ejections or injuries on either side.
Through today’s eyes, yeah sure some of those are cheap and likely would be penalties (I had a similar reaction as you to the Sean Taylor highlight reel). But in a thread about the 2017 Steelers it never occurred to me to state my opinion on the topic.
While people love to whine about Hines Ward, the big bad wide receiver, the real head hunter of that era was Ryan Clark. He was always coming in late looking to lay someone out. Even as a Steeler fan it often made me wince.
I saw Ward get lit up 100 times coming across the middle. It’s not surprising that he liked to give some love back to defensive backs who weren’t paying attention. It’s not even in the same league as Clark or Burfict.
Me too. I think it comes down to Andy Dalton vs. the Steelers secondary. Will we see the secondary that was one of the best pass defenses in the league through the first half the season, or the one that gives up a 50 yard pass play every other drive? As far as Dalton, I can’t help but think back to Vinny Testaverde: any time he was having a decent game against the Steelers my dad would usually say “Well, Vinny’s about due for a pick”, and then it always seemed to come true. I get the same feeling watching Dalton “he’s about due for a pick”.
Unfortunately, Bengals fans feel the same way about Dalton. In fact, we’ve been waiting for the other shoe to drop every season, every playoff game, since 1991.
As far as this game goes, I think the real matchup will be the Bengals almost NFL-worst offensive line against the Steelers front seven. Your secondary won’t matter much if Dalton is on his back, constantly on the run, or spontaneously fumbling. And we have to be able to run the ball with Mixon, at least a little. Perhaps Giovanni Bernard is due for a game, he usually plays well against the Steelers…well, unless he’s knocked unconscious.
I actually think the game will also hinge on the opposite of what you say…the Bengals secondary covering down the field against AB and the rest, hopefully allowing Atkins, Dunlap and Burfict time to get to Ben. Ben sure is having a good season for someone contemplating retirement!
Nah, just keep giving it to Mixon. Screw Bernard and Dalton and Green. Mixon needs 200 yards on 40 carries. If Brown could go off for 150 and a TD or two, that would be appreciated too.
I’d agree that the game hinges on the Steelers receivers vs. the Bengals secondary. If Brown feasts and Bryant or Juju get fed a bit, it could get ugly. You still have to figure out how to stop Bell, and Cincy hasn’t exactly been a powerhouse run-stopping team, even if they’re middle of the pack for YPC. The stats say this probably isn’t going to be a good game for Cincinnati, but when have stats mattered for a division rival?
Oh, you’re going to see Mixon. Whether he and the offensive line have improved enough since the last meeting, which I think they have (marginally) remains to be seen. A breakout performance for a rookie running back against the worst team in football even with their league leading only 3.1 YPC is hardly a cause for celebration.
The Bengals traditionally are at their worst on primetime TV against elite opponents, but as you say, it’s a division rival, we’re at home fighting for our slim playoff hopes and the Steelers can afford to lose a game. We can’t.
I dunno… Isn’t Dalton the guy who knocked out a pass rusher by hitting him with his crotch? That seems tough to counter.
That sounds like a super power that your QB would have.
Ryan Shazier is in real trouble. His legs haven’t moved since this hit and he’s going out on a board.
…and now Mixon.
I know these teams hate each other and all, but this game is awful. I don’t know that I even care about the result anymore.
God I hope Shazier will be back next season. Other than that, typical Steelers game: playing down to abullshit team.