The 2019 Rugby World Cup (RWC) thread (spoilers almost guaranteed during and after games)

The Game Room
81

Well, a poor first half killed the Wallabies, and the excellent defense by Wales in the face of a lot of pressure meant that the comeback was always going to be difficult even with the Aussies playing a lot better in the second half. Overall, I thought Wales deserved to win the game.

If Australia want to advance beyond the quarter-finals in this tournament they’ll need to replicate their second-half performance for the full 80 minutes, and even then it probably won’t be enough. It looks like they’ll have to get through England and the All Blacks to make the final, and I just can’t see them doing it.

I don’t like to criticize referees, especially when my team lost the game, but I’m still a bit annoyed about the penalty on Kerevi for leading with his forearm when he was tackled front-on by Rhys Patchell. The policing of what constitutes dangerous play has been inconsistent, at best, in this tournament. I don’t think this one decision was enough to turn the match, but given that the Wallabies were on the attack and only five points down at the time, it certainly didn’t help.

82

As an England, I am a bit worried by the prospect of facing the ‘good’ Australia - they could easily run up 3 or 4 tries without reply.

I think you make a fair point on the consistency of the refereeing - I thought the decision you refer to was probably correct, but what I don’t quite understand was not receiving a yellow card for it - was it a bit of a fudge, or a good compromise? Compromise decisions are rarely right, since they just leave both sides unhappy :).

83

I am currently on holiday in Malta and not seen a lot of what is going on, though I made time to watch Wales-Australia in a local bar. The Kerevi penalty is a penalty all day long and he’s lucky he didn’t get carded for it. You’re allowed to hand off - it’s even written in the law book - but the clues are in the words there; you have to use your hand. A forearm is not the hand and what Kerevi did constitutes foul play.

That it could stand to be refereed more doesn’t detract from its illegality on the principle two wrongs don’t make a right. Hooper talking to the ref afterwards about Patchell’s tackling technique? That guy needs to wind his neck in - having already put in a late cheap shot with no intent to wrap his arms (thus not effecting a tackle) in this game and should have been carded himself. Chieka whinging after the game and after the Hodge suspension just reinforces that this is an area that they have not understood and should have prepared for. All we’ve been hearing about in the rugby press up here in the lead in to the tournament is how the tackling laws would impact the outcome of games.

I fancy playing neither Wales nor Australia, as an England fan but the level of whining from the great Australian public all over my twitter feed (not that this is happening here) for the tournament is unbecoming. All this games gone soft stuff; rubbish. It’s a hard game with bigger and faster players than we’ve ever had and the players need to be protected. The tackle laws have changed for that reason and calling them into question is retrograde. Move with the times.

I am lead to believe from match reports and so on that the reffing has not been good, and the guys in the middle have been thrown under the bus by World Rugby and are getting a lot of stick. Fair enough - but Poite in his game got the bulk of the major decisions right, in my - neutral - opinion. He could stand to do something about side entry at ruck and attacking players sealing he ball off at tackle by coming off their feet - but couldn’t they all? Been a blight on the game for several years - no one seems to ref that set of laws.

84

One other quick thing - there is a 6 Nations B (it is the top division of a European Rugby Championship that runs all the way down to about 30 teams). It’s main problem is that, since the start of the decade, Georgia have a 85% or so winning record. It’s not good enough to keep that side developing. Absent actual promotion, there needs to be some way of pushing their standards forward, otherwise the game won’t grow. Blowed if I know what that something is though, if it’s not promotion/relegation with the main 6N

85

It has been a little erratic but I think we have seen the possibility of strong refereeing bringing about player change. It is possibly bias viewing on my part but I don’t think we’ve seen as many spear-tackles, man-in-the-air tackles, shoulder-into-the-ruck or neck rolls. That seems to suggest change is possible. Of course the difference with a standard tackle is that a) there are just so many more of them b) there is a greater element of split-second reaction and potential misjudgement at work.

That being the case it may take a while for the tackling drills and training to embed a more safety-first approach in the players. I think it is worth persevering with though. A hard tackle is a thing of beauty and I see no reason why we can’t retain that and still minimise head-injuries.

You’ll never get rid of the risk of course and where possible we do have to make an example of the most egregious incidents. The hit on Farrell was just shocking. He’s very, very lucky not have put him in hospital and there were absolutely no mitigating circumstances. I really hope it was just a rush of blood because any degree of premeditation seems borderline criminal.

86

Well, this week’s play has seen a string of predictable and/or largely irrelevant results. Scotland easily took care of Samoa, France comfortably beat the USA, the All blacks crushed Canada, Fiji and Ireland both had 35-point wins, and South Africa beat up on 14-man Italy in the second half to win 49-3.

I’m looking forward to the Australia-Uruguay game tomorrow. I’m pretty sure the Wallabies will win relatively comfortably, but I’d like to see Uruguay put up a good fight, especially after their great performance against Fiji.

It would be nice to see Argentina give England a run for their money, the way they did with France, but England looks to be a significantly better team than France at this World Cup, so I’m not holding my breath. I predict a pretty comfortable win for the English.

Pool A is really the only pool where there’s any mystery about which teams make the quarter-finals, making Japan and Samoa probably the most interesting game tomorrow. If Japan win, but don’t manage a bonus point, they go to 13 points in the pool. Then, if Scotland manages a win with a bonus point over Russia on Wednesday (a good possibility), Japan will be three points ahead of the Scots.

Japan must be favorite to go through right now, especially if they manage a bonus point against Samoa, but if Samoa can pull off an upset, it opens the the door wide for Scotland, and sets up a great contest between Scotland and Japan on the last day of pool play. Even if Japan wins and is four points ahead by the final day, it would still have some really interesting implications for the last game. Scotland would then have to win by more than 7 points, and/or would have to win while also scoring 4 tries, in order to make it through to the quarter-finals.

The tie-breaker for teams on equal points going through to the quarter-finals is based on which team wins the head-to-head matchup between the two tied teams. So if Scotland beats Japan on the final day, and the teams end up on the same number of points, then Scotland would go through. If Japan wins that game, the tie-breaker is moot because Japan would be comfortably ahead on points.

87

Presumably Ireland are also at risk in the event Scotland beat Japan? Especially if they miss out on a bonus point in their last game (unlikely, but you never know).

88

By my calculations, Ireland is safe as long as they beat Samoa. They don’t even need the bonus point. If Ireland wins, even without a BP, they end up with 15 points.

If Scotland wins both of its last two games with a BP, the best it can do is 15 points, in which case Ireland would go in ahead of Scotland based on the head-to-head result of the game between the two teams.

If Japan wins both of its games, however, Ireland will enter the quarter-finals as the second seed from the pool, meaning they will likely face the All Blacks in the quarter final. Ouch! This means that, for Ireland, the best case scenario is for Scotland to win out and eliminate Japan.

89

Gotcha, makes sense - thanks. Seems harsh on Japan that they effectively have to remain unbeaten in the pool to progress, whereas Ireland and Scotland could both qualify while losing a game. Just the way the bonus points work, I guess.

90

There is still more than one way for Japan to lose a game and qualify.

If they lose against Samoa, but then beat Scotland, they could get in that way, depending on how BPs go.

If they beat Samoa, and then lose to Scotland by 7 or less, that would also likely get them in.

91

Week 2 has been a bit less unpredictable than week one, although Scotland and Fiji won by more than I expected.

England v Argentina should be the pick of the games tonight. England has been building nicely and a good win here will set them up well for the final round match against France. If Argentina can pull off an upset though that pool would become much more exciting.

South Africa looked good against Italy and Kolbe would be my pick for the most in form winger at the tournament. The Italian red card has to be the stupidest act of the tournament so far.

92

Another efficient performance by England, made a lot easier by the tournament’s fifth red card early on. It was unfortunate but correct, I think - players have to take full responsibility for each others’ safety. If it happened to a player on my team I might feel aggrieved - but it’s Argentina, so fuck 'em.

On a similar note, it was good to see the two incidents involving much less serious contacts following failed charge down attempts refereed consistently across the two games - in both cases a penalty was given, as again it’s up to the players to play safely, but since in both cases the contact was fairly minor and accidental, no card.

The only decision I saw today that I thought a bit odd was the yellow card for Samoa for a late tackle. The ITV commentary team were making out it was outrageously late and unnecessary, as far as I could see the ball had barely left the Japanese player’s hands when the tackle came in and if the tackler had pulled out, the ball carrier may have simply not thrown the pass. Or am I way off base here?

Surely Owen Farrell needs to consider a career in boxing - he seems to have a great chin for it.

93

He’s taken two monster hits that would kill a lesser being but given his frst half kicking performance I think he felt the effect of it right enough. I’m not surprised a red was given, it was brutal, I am surprised he didn’t have a HIA.

If I were Eddie Jones I’d seriously consider resting him for the France game, the first hit he seemed to shrug off, the second seemed to wobble him and we know that such things are cumulative. The lad needs some time out.

94

Patently I’m a dinosaur because I thought each players safety was primarily their own responsibility.

At the current trajectory players and coaches are going to see a match/championship winning advantage and inevitably become a strategy to put their own player’s safety in dire peril with the specific aim to take a head high hit and get their opponent sent off.
I thought that diving and feigning injury was a blight on soccer, rather than something to emulate but there you go.

I’m unconvinced the aim of rugby should not so much running to score tries but have refs blow the pea out of their whistles, and players standing in huddles while the great viewing paying public get to see interminable video slo-mo repeats.

95

I do agree with you - I think a good example was in Japan v Samoa, when Samoa were already down to 14 there was a slightly late contact with one of their players after a failed charge down. Initially, play carried on, but because the Samoa player stayed down, after several seconds the ref stopped play (with Japan having a promising attack) and in due course Samoa got the penalty. We don’t want to see soccer-style gaming of the situation like that. On the other hand, if you leap towards a player from five yards out at full speed, miss the ball, and then smash into them in an uncontrolled way, I’m happy with that being a penalty against you. Similarly, if you want to put in a big hit leading with the shoulder, you have to go low and take the height of your target into account. It’s not as if Farrell dipped into the tackle (which would definitely shift the blame if so).

But yes, we want to see thirty players on the field for 90 or so minutes, not 27 for 120 minutes.

96

It’s tough. Given the risk of concussions the game has no option but to crack down on avoidable hits to the head even if they’re unintentional. But no-one wants to see games decided by cards and endless delays for TMO. And currently they haven’t got a solid consistent solution to the problem of the tackled player falling or ducking as the tackle is made - particularly if the he’s shorter than the tackler.

There were a couple of yellow cards in New Zealand - Namibia that I thought were marginal. Both of them were arm-to-the-head on a falling opponent and it’s all right to say “Don’t go in with a swinging arm then!” but you’re supposed to use the arms in a tackle and that’s hard to to without moving them towards the person you’re tackling.
I also wondered if the ref would have been quite so keen to reach for the yellow if it had been a tight quarter-final rather than a blow-out pool game.

In other news, any thoughts about France’s scare against Tonga? Or Samoa’s decision to call a scrum under their posts when down by 12 with a minute to play?

97

I didn’t bother with France v Tonga. Big mistake on my part. From the highlights it looked like France went to sleep in the second half.

As for the tightening up of the high tackle laws. I’m a big fan so long as the rules are applied consistently. Yes an early red ruins games as a contest but players and coaches need to abide by the rules as clearly stated by the refs and the governing body. If you rush in without being in control enough to adjust when the ball carrier dips you’re tackling recklessly and deserve what comes to you in my opinion.

98

All that Pool A drama may fizzle out due to a super-typhoon:

Cancelled matches are scoreless draws, worth 2 points apiece, which will put Japan through and Scotland out. Organisers are apparently looking at moving the fixture, but that is logistically quite complex. It’s difficult to argue with a super-typhoon, of course, but it’ll be a shame not to have what was looking like a real thriller.

99

Indeed. And while it’s not a nice thing to say in the face of a potential natural disaster that could endanger life and property, England’s game being cancelled would be great news for them, as it would guarantee they top the group and avoid injury.

It’s unfortunate the key match involves the hosts - if it does get cancelled, no doubt some will criticise the organisers for not doing enough to reschedule it, whereas if they do so and Japan lose, they will potentially have a backlash (and probably lower revenue) from home fans. A tough spot to be in, quite apart from the logistics.

100

bugger, it’s the Suzuka GP this weekend as well. It’d be a real shame not to see the Japan-Scotland game play out properly.

As it stands it looks like the storm is predicted to hit Yokohama on Saturday which would bugger up the England-France game but it may be through before the Sunday matches.

Fingers crossed I suppose.