So, the servant waits, while the masterbates?
Anyway, what about the hit on Reed? He clearly uses his helmet to drill Reed right in the chin. There’s not much excusing that.
And yes, I agree that its not likely that the hit on Holly was two seconds after the whistle…and that the runner being down and the whistle blowing aren’t simultaneous…maybe the two seconds thing was an exaggeration if this is the hit he’s referring to.
Don’t forget that he specified a hit to the back of the head, two seconds after the whistle. He was pretty clear about it.
Okay, you might not have ever said it, but you did make the even more ludicrous and embarrassing claim that the league is complicit in the vast conspiracy to allow James Harrison to be held. It’s one thing to say James Harrison gets held on every single play, which is funny and that’s why the more rational NFL fans (as in non-Steeler fans) make fun of you all for it… it’s another thing to say the league has made decisions allowing everyone to break the rules specifically against one player.
It’s a whole other thing to weasel your way out of the Hines Ward thing via technicalities. “No! That one doesn’t count! He made his dirty hit only one second after the play was over and it was only to the side of his head!”
Given your fabrications and misrepresentations below, it is probably best that you quote exactly what I said so that we can be clear in our discussion of it.
I’m not weaseling on anything. I made no claim to weasel on. A specific claim of Ward jacking someone in the back of the head 2 seconds after the whistle was made. I want that claim supported.
At least FoisGras knew the difference between the runner being down and the whistle blowing. You don’t even seem to know the difference between a second of real time and a second of slow mo time, and appear to be challenged by where the back of the head is. I think you might need a sports intro course before tackling this subject. To get you started, the football is the brown oblong shape that the big men toss to each other.
Hentor, what do you think of the hit on Ed Reed from the same video? Can you agree that Hines clearly used his helmet to destroy Reed on that play, which should be (don’t know if the play drew a flag, didn’t look like it) completely illegal?
I mean, you can see him dip his head in order to use his helmet to drive it into Reed’s chin. That’s not good football.
I’d say that if he was trying to go helmet to helmet, he missed. It looks to me like he was trying to plant his helmet in Reed’s chest. Having been speared plenty times, I can somewhat empathize with Reed, although nobody ever caught me on the chin like that. Despite that, I wouldn’t particularly have any problem with a fine for that hit.
Pro Football Weekly reports:
"The NFL fined Steelers OLB James Harrison $75,000 on Tuesday for his two helmet-to-helmet hits in Sunday’s win over the Browns.
Harrison’s violent hits knocked WRs Josh Cribbs and Mohamed Massaquoi out of the game. He was unapologetic about his play on Monday, saying he is out to hurt any opposing player who comes in his vicinity.
NFL executive VP of football operations Ray Anderson said in letters to each of the three players fined on Tuesday, “Future offenses will result in an escalation of fines up to and including suspension.”
Harrison is a repeat offender, having been fined $5,000 for unnecessary roughness in Week Two against the Titans."
Yeah he is…but, but, “he’s just playing Steelers football! You know, back when it was played in the 1970’s!”
C’mon Mike Tomlin himself said there was nothing illegal or fineable about Harrisons’ hit on Massaquoi. Who the fuck does the NFL think it is to tell Mike Tomlin he’s full of shit?
I wasn’t referring to this specific hit with my assertion, nor did I have any particular one in mind. 2 seconds is probably an exaggeration with half a second to a second being more likely.
The problem with proving these assertions is that I need to have tapes of NFL games from the past and the NFL makes that difficult to do. I can watch highlights from the games, but some cheap shot at the end of a relatively uneventful play on the other side of the field is unlikely to make it in there anyhow. The only reason Foie Gras Is Evil could provide that link is because some inbred Steelers fan thought putting Ward doing a cheap shot on a player who was clearly defenseless because the play was over was a highlight to be proud of. Most of ward’s dirty plays like that never make a highlight reel so it’s difficult to prove. There’s no wikicheapshots with a Hines Ward page for me to grab cites from.
The irony was that he was just grilling me about that sort of assertion a few weeks ago when I said the Steelers (particularly the departed Marvel Smith) got away with more holding than typical NFL offensive linemen.
So…a coach of a team sticks up for one of his players in the face of a deserved (whether Tomlin adimts it or not) $75 fucking THOUSAND dollar fine? How is that new or unusual again? How does it mitigate anything? Tomlin is just doing his job, getting his star defensive player’s back…why is he suddenly an expert on the hit? He’s biased from the start.
I don’t know about everyone else but I liked what they said on the illegal hit issue on Playbook.
The league is so hypocritical with this stuff. Football is sold as being a tough, manly sport. We all like seeing the highlights of the big hits, especially when they lead to incomplete passes or turnovers. Now the NFL is saying you’re supposed to be tough, but not too tough! How is a player supposed to make the decision about whether or not their hit is going to be deemed excessive (by some subjective standard) and worthy of a fine or suspension in the split second it takes to make a play? Harrison was definitely being dumb making his comments about aiming to hurt and not injure. I agree with him that there is a distinction, and that his attitude toward hard hits is what is taught/striven for by all defenses around the league. But coming out and saying it so bluntly, especially after a weekend with so many concussions, was just asking for extra scrutiny.
Oh, and if you want to say the NFL doesn’t sell their image as a hard hitting sport, why are they selling pictures of the hit on Massaquoi?
Sorry, I assumed you knew what a link was and how to operate it. (On a side note, how do you manage to navigate around here with no clue whatsoever of how to use a computer?)
Right. So you completely fail to recognize hyperbole from others, calling on them to cite specifically every tenet of their claim (which, while obviously exaggerated, is not at all far from the actual truth which was shown in the videos and is generally known to be true by everyone in and around football)… but when you make your own ludicrous and ridiculous claims… what then? Are you prepared to provides evidence that any referees have ever claimed it was okay to hold James Harrison? Or that the league ever decided it was okay to hold him, let alone “still” allowing it?
I’m guessing you aren’t prepared.
I really am starting to think you didn’t even read my post by how poorly you characterize it. I never said he hit Holly in the back of the head. He clearly hit him in the side of the head. What’s funny, and completely predictable, is that you make a snide remark about how I “need a sports intro course” when you clearly don’t know the rules yourself. It matters exactly** none** that the play hadn’t been blown dead. What matters is that Holly wasn’t involved in the play nor was the likely to have gotten involved in any way, and he had no reasonable expectation of getting hit in such a way (since he was obviously slowing down and not looking in Ward’s direction). The written rules for Unnecessary Roughness state very clearly this is illegal** before or after** the play is blown dead. This is before bringing up that spearing people with your helmet isn’t fucking legal either. It wasn’t legal any of the times he did it. Not to Ed Reed in that video, not to anyone else. And he does it a lot. Hence, he’s a dirty player. That’s probably why his fellow players voted him the dirtiest player in the league. They were right. If they were right about him, they were **probably **right about Palomalu too and we just don’t know why.
So now that you’ve been completely schooled, I’d like to dismiss you as you so deserve and move onto something else, but I think it might be a topic for a new thread sometime. There seems to be a distinction in all of this that a player has to be “defenseless” in order to be a candidate for protection under these helmet to helmet rules, but I’m not so sure that distinction actually exists.
The play actually was blown dead. You can’t hear the whistle since the video has music instead of game audio, but you can see the moment where every player on the field suddenly slows down and starts walking back to the line. The Ward hit is noticibly after this point, where even Holly has slowed down and stopped protecting himself because the play was over.
Sorry, I was on my handheld and didn’t see that you had embedded a link in one word there. I like how much affect you have about this, though. Boy, it’s personal for some reason, isn’t it? Why is that?
I’m saying that they were not calling holding when linemen clearly had encircled their arms around his head. I’m saying that he specifically had discussions with league officials about what constituted holding, and that it was an ongoing issue, and that video clearly showed referees watching the line, with Harrison clearly by offensive linemen and clearly being restrained only by an arm around the neck, and it was not being called.
See, when you stride into something with all kinds of affect, you get confused. I didn’t say you said it, and I’m not defending that hit. (I don’t think it was helmet to helmet, since Holly’s shoulder would have been in the way, but I already agreed that it was gratuitous and said that I wouldn’t have argued with a fine.) **
SenorBeef** made the claim. Try to calm down and you might get that. And the claim is pretty outrageous. A hit to the back of the head two seconds after the whistle would be especially noteworthy and cowardly. If Ward is so dirty, you ought to be able to make the case without complete fabrication.
I both demand for you to explain exactly how this conspiracy gets spread amongst the NFL referees and why, and prove your football expertise to us so we know when you see a guy being pulled down by the neck you know it’s holding.
I could easily make a case if I had all of the Steelers games on tape. I don’t. The NFL doesn’t have them on its website, nor does it sell them. I’ve seen it many times, I’ve talked to other people who’ve seen it many times, and Hines Ward was voted the dirtiest player in the NFL by his peers. That’s the best case I can make, because there’s no wikicheapshots.com for me to link videos from, and cheap shots on the other side of unremarkable plays rarely make highlight reels.
I agree with most of that. I think that the fine against Dunta Robinson was a travesty, since clearly the hit was not to the head. I think that Harrison was trying to do exactly what Robinson did (i.e. deliver a blow to the midsection to separate the football that ended up in a blow to the head) but if you want to treat blows to the head like sticks to the face in hockey (i.e. no matter your intent, it’s the outcome that matters) then I’m okay with that, generally.
What I have a problem with is that we know exactly how this is going to play out. There are going to be marked inconsistencies in how these plays are called and how suspensions are handed out, and when those inconsistencies arise, it’s going to affect game outcomes and possibly team playoff standings. (For instance, in that video clip they talked about a flag on that play by Leonard of the Jets. That’s outrageous!) You’ll be fine with it until it means that your team loses a game or multiple games.
I also think that trying to cause a player to fumble is part of the game. We all know the import of turnovers, and if you start legislating against hits like Robinson’s, and to a lesser extent Harrison’s hit on Massoqoui, then you are going to fundamentally change the nature of the game. “Going across the middle” isn’t going to mean what it now means. You’re going to see a vast increase in dink and dunk football. I personally hate that style of football, so I’m not in favor of it.
Funny…the NFL up until just a little bit ago had the picture of the Massaquoi hit available for sale in prices ranging up to $250…until apparently enough people pointed out the hypocrisy of that and they took it down…
Poor widdle Jamesy Harrison is so very, wery picked on by the big, ole meanie the NFL. He’s considering taking his ball and running home to his mommy and retiring. "“I’m going to sit down and have a serious conversation with my coach tomorrow and see if I can actually play by NFL rules and still be effective,” Harrison said. “If not, I may have to give up playing football.”.