The American Coup: 11.9.2020 -

I commented to somebody (“on another network …”):

To the unfailingly loyal Trump supporters … I do have to ask: is there anybody – even a single soul on earth – who could disparage Trump and whose opinion you’d respect and whose name you wouldn’t (like Trump) tarnish ? If it were Ivanka, Eric, Mary, or Don Jr., you’d call them TINO – Trumps In Name Only. If it were Jared Kushner, you’d point out his religion. Melania ? She’d just be a ‘bitter, ungrateful [insert your favorite misogynistic pejorative here].’

You try and you try and you try to avoid comparisons to Germany in the mid-to-late 30’s, but …

IMHO the problem with trying this is that the far right is numerically larger than the never Trumpers. I could be wrong, but I think that the vast majority of the new voters Trump won in 2020 compared to 2016 are MAGAs / deplorables. Since they outnumber the few remaining never Trumpers, even if all the never Trumpers left the Republican Party, the addition of the deplorables will more than make up for their leaving.

Not needed. I believe Trump will torch the place on his way out the door.

What’s been interesting to me is how few Republicans are willing to take on Trump even as they’re heading out the exit. There are five Republican Senators who definitely won’t be returning next year due to defeat or retirement, and another two who’ve announced they won’t run again in 2022 (Toomey and NC Senator Richard Burr). Richard Shelby (age 84), Jim Inhofe (age 86) and Charles Grassley (age 87) all have to be thinking about hanging up their spurs. Any of them could call on Trump to recognize the election result and begin the transition to a Biden Administration without facing political consequences.

And yet, as far as I know, Toomey’s the only one who’s explicitly recognized Biden as president-elect.

A number of them could switch to Dem and deliver a quick and fatal blow.

We’ve seen men who SERVED IN THE MARINES still do this. I’m equally baffled as to why fewer people took the chance to step up before they were out the door, instead of when they actually occupied a position of meaningful responsibility inside the administration when taking a stand would have more of an impact.

Because Trump’s base would have expessed career-ending displeasure with them.

But if they are retiring in 2024 or even 2026 why would that matter? They are ending their career by choice so the Trumpists won’t be able to do anything to them.

True, but even if some of their careers might fizzle by 2022, even, you can bet Bob Crane’s gun collection that even a meagre two more years of power and sticking it to the libs is somehow a lifeline that they wouldn’t have the intestinal fortiutude to avail themselves of.

Sorry for a brief hijack but is there a chance that centrists from both parties could form a new party, thus leaving one wack-job RW party, one “scary socialist” LW party, and one “common-sense” party?

I doubt it would work, mainly because the distribution of voters on the right is skewed too far to the right for it to work.

Based on POTUS votes, the current Republicans would account for about 74M votes and the Democrats about 80M. For giggles, let’s call the new parties the Socialist, Democratic-Republican, and Fascist parties. In this new alignment, the Socialists would likely end up with something like 15M to 20M, almost all former Democrats with a few Greens thrown in. The Democratic-Republicans would end up with about 65M to 70M, the vast majority former Democrats with a few people like John Kasich and Mitt Romney thrown in. The Fascists would end up with 65M to 70M, basically the bulk of the current Republicans along with Libertarians minus the few sane people that are currently speaking out against Trump.

The Democrats would be fools to try such a thing.

People have political careers as lobbyists and “consultants” after leaving office that rely on having access to people who are still in power - there’s a shitload of money in that line of work, which basically involves giving access to industries and explaining to CEOs what Senators So and So expects in terms of donations and explaining to Senator So and So how this CEO’s could help him get re-elected. They are ex-marines; now they’re millionaires and want to remain so. But they need access to power, or they don’t get those opportunities quite so easily. That’s why they so often puss out on the way to go unless they are personally insulted like Bob Corker was, and even then, he didn’t put up too much of a fight.

I would adamantly oppose the Democrats contributing to a centrist party; we need them as a coalition. The survival of America as a semi-liberal democracy depends on Democrats’ ability to function as a coalition party.

It’s the “good” Republicans that have the difficult choice, but they are the ones who created this mess. They can lament the death of Reagan’s party, but they helped kill it - I don’t care what they say. They only started caring when it got the the Trump-level of madness, but the party was heading in that direction long, long before 2015 - and they know it, and they’d have no choice but to confess it if they’re being honest.

They have to abandon the party and let Democrats rule for 4-6 years to stabilize the party. If they want to occasionally step in and oppose shit like the fight for $25 (per hour minimum wages) and free college for everyone and their dead ancestors, I’m probably fine with that. But short of that, they need to shut up and get out of the way.

No.

Combine first past the post with a Constitution that doesn’t allow for coalition government and you get a two party system.

As for the GOP being replaced by something new, I could see speculating about that if the GOP did poorly in the elections earlier this month. But it only did poorly in the presidential race.

I don’t think it’s that hard to understand. Stepping up may be the right thing to do, but it’s also risky, so people wait until they (feel that they) have nothing to lose. If you are going to burn a bridge, it’s human nature to do so after crossing it.

I’m in agreement that they have a difficult choice. IMHO a big part of the reason their choice is difficult is because their numbers are so small. They can’t threaten the remaining Republicans because they would just get told to pound sand, we don’t need you all anymore. On the other hand, they wouldn’t be of much help to the Democrats for the same reason. Why should the Democrats move to the right to win over such a small number of voters and elected officials?

When I think of never Trumpers who are relevant, I think a lot of the consultants like Rick Wilson, Mike Murphy, and the political activists like Bill Kristol. In a way, I think their best move would be to become independents and function as political “kingmakers” and I don’t understand why more don’t already do it. It’s a lot less hazardous to be an independent these days - they could still fight against “socialism” and they could have the freedom to pick and choose which party they want to support. If they wanted a viable third party, that would seem like the way to give rise to it.

I used to be of the opinion that third parties are bad, and while I still want the Democrats to unify as a party, I don’t know if I necessarily subscribe to that view. I have entertained the idea of becoming an independent myself, and I might once the storm has passed. What’s clear is that both parties need competition.

The problem, however, is our political system makes it potentially dangerous to split parties up, especially if there’s a split in the “opposition” and for all practical purposes, given America’s long history as a conservative country, I would apply the “opposition” label to today’s Democratic party. If we had a parliamentary government without an ultra-powerful Executive, I would be more inclined to support party splitting and coalition building.

Unfortunately, physical courage does not guarantee moral courage.

The left of the left is common sense. Why, in the “greatest nation on earth” should getting sick drain one’s life savings? Other countries, who are obviously not “the greatest” have figured it out.

True enough, as I’m a citizen of one of those countries (your neighbour up north), but, we don’t have a major party that is as absolutely bizarre as you folks have. Though don’t the pubs have something of a reasonable component (eg Romney et al)? And I was also under the impression that there are issues between AOC, Sanders and their ilk and the rest of the Dems.

Note, I’m obviously not super well versed in your politics though I, and probably much of the world, is absolutely gobsmacked by Trump and his supporters.