At this point, it is a bunch of mentally ill people who are running the country.
That’s basically the crux of it.
They are not operating within normal mental parameters.
It looks like Sydney Powell may be in a spot of legal trouble for defaming a business and causing them financial damage:
President Donald Trump’s campaign legal team sent a memo to dozens of staffers Saturday instructing them to preserve all documents related to Dominion Voting Systems and Sidney Powell in anticipation of potential litigation by the company against the pro-Trump attorney.
Well, if Donald gets his newest wish, it won’t matter.
I put the odds on him attempting martial law at about two in three. I don’t see why he wouldn’t try, actually. He’s a sociopath, and it may be what keeps him out of prison.
Agreed that I think that he’ll try, or at least tweet that he is planning on it.
I don’t think that he will succeed, as those who would have to actually carry out such orders are sworn to uphold the constitution, and would refuse such orders as illegal.
I am not at all confident of that. Soldiers are trained to carry out orders. “I am the commander in chief and I say there’s an insurrection” will convince many soldiers. The real line of defense is other civilian authority being in general agreement that this sort of thing is unacceptable, but there is no such general agreement anymore; Republicans would mostly approve.
After all, if General Smith says “no,” Trump can simply go to the next guy in line and say “Arrest General Smith for insubordination, and do as I say.” Are you really all that sure he won’t find a Trumpist general at some point?
I’ve seen reports in both directions, that privately he openly discusses that he lost and is just trying to cash out the rubes, but also that he fully really expected the SCOTUS to just declare him King of America and is now sulking.
His rhetoric about cheating is going to be hard to drown out…even my friends who don’t like him and didn’t vote for him are convinced “there’s cheating on both sides” when it comes to voter fraud, and I’ve exhausted myself reminding them there were only 4 cases of fraud in 2016 and something similar in 2020, and that none of his lawyers are alleging fraud in the court cases, ONLY in the court of public opinion, etc etc…
There’s a comedian…Dom Irrera I think…who does a bit about his credulous cousin’s extrapolations…“Hey this dude says he’s a billionaire…even if he’s lying, he’s still probably pretty rich!”
I feel like that’s what’s happening with voter fraud now…“ok it’s not as bad as they are saying but I’m sure there’s still a lot…”
I’d never consider 4 a lot.
Once you do “crazy,” it’s no longer crazy; it become a little more normal. If we’ve learned anything over these last four years, we should know this by now. That’s what the Trump era has taught us: we can’t just take norms for granted; people have to respect them, and there have to be consequences for not respecting them.
100% sure, no.
But if General Jones goes to arrest General Smith for insubordination, and General Smith orders his troops to protect him, and to arrest General Jones for insurrection, then we get an interesting predicament.
If the first general complies, we have a problem. If the second one complies, then we have a very complicated situation. If the 12th one complies after the first 11 refused an illegal order, it is that 12th one and the pretender in chief who have a problem.
How that faith-in-the-strength-of-our-institutions been working out for you the past few years? How’s it been working out for black people? How did it work out for the BLM protestors who were tear gassed in DC? How’s it been working out for the interregnum?
It’s a very effective lie because, for one thing, all politicians (hell, all people) lie once in a while – about something. Politics is a competitive enterprise: one side wins, the other loses, and both fight like hell to make sure they’re not the one that loses. People also naturally assume the worst about human nature. People assume winners like Joe Biden are like the New England Patriots: legitimate winners but not above deflating footballs or taking steroids to gain an edge. It’s a baseline assumption that cheating happens, and that the difference between someone like Biden and someone like Trump is just a matter of degree. People like Trump understand this.
This is where amplification comes in, and this is why Joseph Goebbels said that if you tell the lie enough, and make it bigger and more damaging, people will eventually begin to believe it. Because it takes a kernel or reality, and it amplifies it. The big lie approach takes that difference of degree and distorts reality in the mind of otherwise neutral but still impressionable people by amplifying the idea that Biden cheated and cheated and cheated and cheated.
Even if Biden were to return fire and claim that Trump is cheating, it doesn’t really help. Trump openly lies, and openly cheats. If Trump is honest about one thing, it’s the fact that he’s a scammer. Like when he gets busted for paying zero income taxes, he didn’t deny it; he instead just said that he’s smart for not paying taxes and that it’s human nature to not want to pay more in income taxes – again, something that the typical person can reluctantly agree with him on, even if they don’t like or agree with him much.
For liberal democracy to work, all sides have to agree to play by certain rules. All sides have to agree to cooperate with one another when it comes to how the game is played and what the results are. But as @k9bfriender pointed out, it only takes one person (or a handful) of people to simply stop playing by the rules, and that’s what Republicans are doing now: they’re no longer playing by the rules. We’re just seeing the early stages of this. Right now, not playing by the rules and failing to cooperate is manifest by increasingly low level anti-democratic behavior, like refusing to acknowledge the apparent winner of an election and refusing to cooperate with a transition. This is the beginning, the low level form of resistance to liberal democracy. This will get worse – much worse, I’m afraid.
I’m afraid you’re right. The next level of “not playing by the rules” may well involve arresting and imprisoning your political rivals. And that’s not the final level.
On 1.21.2021, Joe Biden will be:
- President
- Prisoner
0 voters
Never underestimate are instincts to obey authority. Trump is engaging in norm-breaking behavior, but one norm that still exists is that the President is the Commander-in-Chief of the entire military. As unsettling as the apparent outgoing president’s behavior is, it would be even more norm shattering for a general to openly resist and defy a current president, and I doubt anyone would seriously try unless he were confident he had widespread institutional support.
More realistically, Trump would not ask for anyone’s arrest; he would simply demand general X’s resignation and go down the chain of command until he finds someone willing to do what he wants, and I have no doubt that that person exists.
This norm is so strong that Colin Powell, even after having left the military and having taken an oath as secretary of state, let Bush and Cheney make a fool of him before the world. Powell knew very well that he was presenting a pack of lies to the United Nations, but his kneejerk personal obedience overruled his intellect.
I voted president, but in my mind, it’s a question of how strong or weak he is. Biden could be so badly weakened by attacks on his political legitimacy (particularly with the increasingly ferocious attacks on his son) that he never has a chance to get any meaningful cooperation and that there might be pockets of active local resistance (whatever that looks like) throughout the country.
Well, that’s concerning to say the least. At that point it wouldn’t matter what our norms, rules, or laws were.
Let’s not forget: Republicans in Congress, save Mitt Romney and a handful of others, have given no indication whether they would or wouldn’t support going full-on authoritarian. Too chickenshit.
Can someone level-headed explain how this would hypothetically work out in Trump’s favor…
Can he just declare martial law and declare himself the president? Who would enforce or adjudicate such a proclamation…the army physically enforces his command…? Does the SCOTUS not have any authority? Does no one but Trump have any authority at that point…?
I know Flynn is pushing for the military to take over America and hold a sham election to declare Trump the winner…would there be no legal recourse…? Is there just no law anymore? If it’s just anarchy, what precisely does Trump “rule” over…? America would basically just be finished. It’d be utter chaos…no returning to living in the WH every day and hitting the golf course, it’d be literal war in the streets, right?
It just seems so incredibly far-fetched and impossibly damaging that it’s hard to afford the energy to worrying about it…but I might just be too dumb to be afraid…?
resisting a President for issuing illegal and unconstiutional orders. I think almost all of generals would do that, and surely the Joint Chiefs of Staff
Maybe he finds a general a dozen steps down the chain who would not defy him, but on Jan 20 Roberts will swear in BIden. Trump is no longer commander in chief. So that general would have to arrest Biden and Harris and Roberts and I presume the entire Supreme Court. If Roberts were not available I presume another Justice would do it.
Trump declares himself President. This general would bring troops into DC and surround the White House and the Capital building. Now what? First there would be massive protests and Trump declares martial law, puts all the protesters in jail. I really don’t think soldiers under that gerneral’s command are going to shoot American citizens down. And even if they do, see below.
While all this is happening, the rest of the military and all of the top brass are going to be meeting and uniting against this general. (I believe even Mosco Mitch would denounce it, you think he wants to spend the rest of this life with Trump as a dictator?)They would have 100 times more troops at their disposal. Is this rogue general going to fight like Custer? Hell no, a battle will never happen. You cannot stage a military coup in the country the size of the US without the support of all the military.
I am sorry, this it total paranoia. And if I end up in a gulag beside you, I will apologize.
He can HEREBY DELCARE himself King of Siam. Doesn’t matter without the military. Without that, everyone except The Proud Boys just ignores him