I read somewhere that Lynch’s reasoning was that there were already a lot of Kung-fu movies, so he didn’t want to have Jessica teach the Fremen the weirding way and then have his fight scenes end up looking like something from a Bruce Lee movie. But he still needed Jessica and Paul to introduce a new weapon to the Fremen so they could go beat up the emperor, so he took the quote “my name has become a killing word” from the book and made it literal.
Still wouldn’t exactly been the first solution that popped into my head, but it is David Lynch we’re talking about.
I seem to vaguely recall that one of the replays which Ship indulged in seemed to have been the Dune universe… but can’t recall what comment by Ship made me think so… drat. This’ll probably nag at me 'till I go back and re-read 'em.
However, both Ship and Leto II are my favorite Herbert characters. And largely for the same reason. I think it may be that his other characters (Paul, Bickel) were so smugly sure of themselves while making the same mistakes over and over, that it was nice to have the Deux Ex around to smack them around a bit.
No. Well, sort of. Well, what I mean is, lots of people say they just keep getting worse and worse, but I think books one through four are all very good. Arguably, book two is better than book one, though I wouldn’t actually make that argument. I think books one and two are very different kinds of books, and each is a really really good example of the kind of book its trying to be.
Three is great fun, but not a great book as 1 and 2 are.
Meanwhile, 4, I think, by itself, is the better side of so-so, but taken as a part of the first-four-book set makes absolutely the perfect climax and ending of the series.
Then ignore books 5 and 6.
As you saw above, I thought book two was great.
I may have to read these again to recall why.
I just remember it was one of the few books at the time that I had read it which literally brought me to tears at one point.
Anime, hell–it should have been done for Masterpiece Theater.
Several months after the 1984 version came out, I saw Lawrence of Arabia for the first time and said to myslef, “**Dune ** needed a David Lean, not a David Lynch.”
QtM, Opal and others, I’ll take it a step further: I loved the first Dune book. I still think it’s one of the best books I’ve ever read. I read Dune Messiah and Children of Dune, though I wanted to quit for several long stretches of Children. God Emperor of Dune just couldn’t hold my attention. I wish I had stopped after the first book–I have several Dune books lying around that I never intend to read, and I never intend to watch the movie or the miniseries because I’ve ruined too much of a good thing already.
Although now that I’ve read cerberus’s summary part of me wants to give Heretics a try; I was always so fascinated by the Bene Gesserit. I’m afraid I’ll be disappointed, though.
That was one of the major problems with Messiah and Children for me. Paul wasn’t the kind of emperor I envisioned him becoming. I know it’s a dystopian story, but that bothered me. I didn’t like looking up to Paul and then being disappointed by his true nature. I felt betrayed. But I suppose that’s the message.
Actually, I feel the same way about A Clockwork Orange after finally reading the book recently. I thought the movie did a brilliant job of imagining the book’s own dystopian future, but when I got to the final stage of Alex’s first prison term in the book I wished I hadn’t known what was coming. It felt like I missed out on a hell of a ride.
This is exactly why, even though I’m right in the Sci Fi demographic and I grew up as a self-identified geek, I can’t stand most science fiction. I loved Dune, Foundation, Nemesis and “I, Robot” because their visions were so unlike any others. Even after the passing of both Herbert and Asimov, sci-fi is still largely made from a cookie-cutter. The fantasy genre is even worse. I watch Voyager regularly and I’ve played my share of MUDs and D&D campaigns, but you won’t catch me dead reading sci-fi or fantasy these days.
I don’t know. Good fanfic seems like a waste of time and talent. Anyone who can write good fanfic seems like they’re being held back from greater success (in all senses of the word) by their attachment to somebody else’s creative idea. Brian Herbert was automatically guaranteed instant publication and pretty good sales figures just by his being a Herbert; he’s never had to create his own universe to be taken seriously as an SF writer, and I see a lot of talented writers trapped by not realizing they don’t have the same luxury. But that’s just how I see it.
Don’t bother. It was sometime after I read Heretics of Dune that I heard Herbert had died and his son was carrying the torch forward. In my mind, Heretics and Chapterhouse: Dune were clearly written by an inferior author, which in my little world, will always be someone else besides a declining Frank Herbert.
It took me about three tries to get through Dune, but that magic third time, it had me in its grip. I was puzzled by the three followups, but the enduring testament to Herbert’s talent is that he could completely trash the achievements of his characters in previous books and still keep you interested in the current story.
Dune Messiah destroys the heroic nature of Paul, and Children of Dune upends the notion that he was ever a savior. I thinked he came just shy of the point of overdoing it in God Emperor, which was rough going for a couple of tries, but ultimately quite satisfying. Having but 14 years under my belt when it was published, I didn’t appreciate how that much time might cause an author to completely rethink their view of their creation.
But with Heretics and Chapterhouse he stretched his premise and his gift past the breaking point. Both books are pretty much boring and pointless, unless you were really wondering what had become of the Jews during all these centuries. I slogged through both of them, and barely remember a thing.
I read only the first book, and without wanting to offend any fans, I found it dry as a sandstorm - science fiction which was heavy on the science, and light on the fiction.
But it’s just a matter of taste, isn’t it? I can explain to you how to appreciate some or other example of artistic expression, but if you can’t connect with it on some more visceral level, is there any point in it? I’m not sure.
Ditto me here (though it might have been four tries, not three; don’t recall exactly). That first sixty pages or so is thick, dense, and slow stuff. In some ways, it’s like the long clickety-clank of going up the first hill on the roller coaster. After that, it’s gravy.
I just have to step in here and beg you to reconsider long enough to read George R. R. Martin’s Song of Ice and Fire series. The first book is A Game of Thrones. You won’t regret it. Seriously.
You mean he could keep you interested in the current story. The degradation of Paul as a character pissed me off. I agree with the metaphorical moral of the story, but actually finding out that Paul wasn’t what I was led to believe he was, really turned me off of the whole thing. I don’t think I even want to reread the first one now that I know the truth.
I will consider your request, but only because I work at a bookstore and I can easily check it out on my next lunch break.
It’s been years since I read this book, but I don’t recall being led to believe that Paul was anything more than a victim of circumstance.
All the messianic stuff was made up, after all.
-FrL-
(By the way, anyone other than me ever thought there are plenty of parallels to be drawn between the first couple of Dune books and the movie The Godfather? (Maybe the book too, though I never read it.))
It’s been a while (maybe three years) since I’ve read any of the Dune books, too, but I seem to recall Paul either being disingenuous in the first place or becoming a bit of a tyrant later on. It may have been that there was a long transition period where he was just “a victim of circumstance”. I suppose I could be misremembering, but I remember not liking where it was going.
I love it too. One of those things, how can you explain to someone why its so great and why can’t you understand why they hate it, you either like it or you don’t I guess.
Its one of the great things about the film, it adds a necessary sense of grandeur to scenes that require it.
They have personal shield technology that surrounds them with a barrier that blocks anything travelling at really high speed (like a bullet) but will allow slow moving objects through. Obviously this would be necessary to allow the wearer to interact with their environment. It means that projectile weapons are useless, however. Combat that uses slower movements, with things like knives, is therefore the best way to keeeel somebody.
I read the first book in high school and loved it: ecology, politics, dynastic intrigue, a fully-realized and exotic locale, futuristic warfare, etc. What’s not to love? I still think it’s a masterpiece. I took a crack at the other books in the series, though, and felt seriously confused and let down (although “God-Emperor” is a title I think any ambitious young person should aspire to).
The Lynch movie did have some arresting imagery and a seductive, dreamlike mood, but all in all it failed. I don’t think anyone could ever capture most readers’ personal vision of Arrakis, and Lynch fell short, sad to say (I remember at the time that the President and Mrs. Reagan had a private screening in the White House - I wonder what they made of it!). The SciFi Channel version was even more disappointing, IMHO - and what was up with the Sardaukar’s goofy hats, anyway?
Fetus, I second OpalCat’s recommendation of George R.R. Martin. He’s a great storyteller and will keep you turning the pages. I’ve read all of the books so far in the Song of Ice and Fire series, as well, and love 'em. May I also recommend his Tuf Voyaging (long a favorite of mine, a collection of interrelated short stories with some similarities to Dune, now that I think of it), Dying of the Light (about a planet drifting away from its star) and Fevre Dream (pre-Civil War vampires along the Mississippi, kinda like Bram Stoker meets Mark Twain). Good, good stuff.
The Sardaukar’s hats? The Bene Gesserit were gliding around with Shamu-fins on theirs!
The Evil Fashion Nazi was working overtime on that mini-series. And particularly had it in for poor Irulan. Because nothing says “competent, Bene Gesserit trained princess” like having pastel butterflies hotglued all over you.
p.s.: also recommend ASoF&I. plus, they’re planning a series for that, so if you read 'em now you’ll be able to be horrified along with the rest of us at what they did to “our” books.
Now, now, now – there were enough goofy hats to go around. The Tv Dune was the biggest collection of absurd headweare since Atlantis – The Lost Continent.
