The Art of Disputing a Speeding Ticket

Factual Questions
1

Yesterday, I had the honor of receiving a speeding ticket. I, however, do not know what speed I was going at at the time I was pulled over (didn’t think I was being pulled over for speeding, and did not check my speed before pulling over), and I do not believe that the officer could truly know what speed I was going at, if he even pulled me over for speeding. Thus, I have considered disputing my ticket. I base this on the following:

-Traffic was busy, and there were cars all around me. Four lanes, and there were cars in front of me, behind me, to my left, and to my right.

  • I was in the third lane. The cars in the fourth lane were passing me, making them more prime targets for speeding than myself, leading me to believe that I wasn’t really clocked at a certain speed.

-The officer, after examining my license and registration, asked me to step out of the car and told me that the narcotics dog in the back of the car had been going crazy, and that he himself smelled marijuana all over me and in the car.

-I invited him to search the car thoroughly, and bring the dog over as well, as I have never nor was using illegal drugs.

-After it was obvious that he knew that I knew that his marijuana claim was full of it, he said that he had clocked me going 15 over. I did not ask to see the radar reading, as I did not know I could.

Again, I don’t know how fast I was going, as I was simply flowing with traffic. But I am almost positive I wasn’t going 15 over, and don’t believe that the officer really knew how fast I was going.

What is the possibility of my dispute succeeding? What would you recommend I do? Is all hopeless, and should I merely pay it and avoid court costs? Lawyerly Dopers, please lend me a hand.

(For all purposes of law, this occurred in Ohio, the Breadbasket state)

2

I dunno… but youre probably right… That officer deserved more than a few profanities

I worked as a trainee with the police dept once, as I understand, in a crowd of cars, a normal mounted police radar cant specifically tell which car is speeding, it usually picks up the first or largest car in the crowd…

3

The most common method used to extricate oneself from a speeding ticket is to dispute the evidence. The ticketing officer must appear in court to testify concerning the veracity of findings.

Often, busy schedules and patrols in other locations interfere with the officer’s ability to appear in court on the appointed date. This can sometimes result in the case being dismissed. However, many judges often have quite a dislike of defendants who intentionally complicate the legal process in hopes of avoiding a legitimate ticket.

4

I went to court to plead my case one time for a speeding ticket. Every single one of those who plead not-guilty did not have any evidence besides their testimony and had their case shot down by the police officer who had their testimony, a print out of the speed on the radar, recorded times and detailed notes taken the same day of the alleged offense.

Luckily, I was one of the last people to go up, so I had begun to notice a trend. Those who plead “guilty with an explanation” got reduced fees and points, awarded by the judge. So, that’s what I plead and had my speed reduced from 15 mph over (3 negative points on my license) to 9 mph over (2 points). BTW, that’s a Virginia thing.

So, I guess my point is that your outcome would really depend on the judge, state laws, the police officer’s testimony and evidence, and your evidence and testimony. You’d really have to be prepared to discredit the police officer. Cross you fingers and hope the cop doesn’t show up.

Good luck!

5

Depending on how far away the officer was when he clocked you, (I’m assuming he was using radar) “Traffic was busy” could be the heart of your defense. It would be fairly easy to raise reasonable doubt as to whether you were breaking the law. If you were driving a small car, that could help your defense. The officer would have had to be rather close to get an accurate reading. In cross-examination, ask the officer how broad the radar goes–in DEGREES. This can help. Ask if the radar unit was calibrated with multiple tuning forks before you were pulled over. -Traffic was busy, and there were cars all around me. Four lanes, and there were cars in front of me, behind me, to my left, and to my right.

Go to the police station and request discovery on the officer’s notes. RIGHT NOW.

6

Ok. Here’s my experience. I used to prosecute for traffic tix in VA.

Radar can track a car from far away. Officer has caught you long before you see him. If you weren’t going 15 miles over the limit at the time he pulled you over, you probably were at the time he clocked you. There is no requirement for him to show you the radar. This being said, you can contest the tix.

  1. You can ask for radar’s calibration. Depending on state, it must be calibrated regularly (usually every 6 months, but you should check Ohio Statutes). This defense is very common; most courts are prepared for this; and you will likely not succeed. But, worth a try. If not calibrated, then radar can be faulty. You may need to ask for this in advance. Again, check the statute.

  2. You can ask to go to trial. You do not need a lawyer and it’s not worth your money to pay for one. Prosecution must establish prima facie violation. Usually, officer takes notes during the traffic stop, so if you said anything, dont be surprised if he quotes your exact words. If you said you didn’t know how fast you were going to the officer on the day he pulled you over, you cannot later say you know you were going less than speed he clocked you.

  3. Officer may not show up to court. Depends on judge and the reason for no-show if judge will dismiss. In my courtroom, if officer no-show b/c of family emergency, then it was excused and you will need to reappear on another day – even if this causes you inconvenience. If officer no-show b/c of conflict at work, then you are free. It happens on occasion. Ask prosecutor in advance if officer present, and if not, the reason why not.

  4. Most prosecutors will plead down your ticket – usually, 15 miles over the limit to 9 miles over limit. This is your best bet to reduce tix. This will not lower cost of tix and sometimes you can get court costs tacked on. This is usually best bet if you are concerned about points. Courts report tix to DMV and DMV assesses points.

  5. I know the marijuana thing pissed you off, but you aren’t going to get any sympathy from judge. “Smell” of mj establishes probable cause to search car. Police are trained to smell that stuff. Obviously, he made grevious error in your situation. That sucks, but again, not much you can do about it.

I’m not sure if I’ve helped you at all. In sum, best bet is to go to court and if officer appears, agree to plead to lesser offense.

7

Oh, the “going with the flow of traffic” defense doesn’t go very far. If that’s the heart of your defense, you lose.

8

Cop is an officer of the court - more veracity.

Cop has no reason to lie - you do - more veracity.

If you want to reduce fine/points - go to court, plead guilty and say you won’t do it again. Keep it short and sincere.

If you want to simplify your life - mail in the fine.

If you want “fair” - well our Fair in Memphis comes in September (and there is a rodeo also)

9

Is it possible he was using laser? I’ve used it. Unlike radar the officer can pick a single car out of a pack a clock only that car.
Many times during traffic enforcement a single officer will have multiple violators and will pick one to pull over. It’s not always the one going the fastest either, but it may be the only one he was able to get a reading on with his laser gun. Who get’s clocked has a lot to do with where one parks his patrol car. Laser takes more work and effort to use than radar does. Unless you’ve actually used it, it’s hard to understand it’s strengths and weaknesses. I like it, but I wish someone would come out with a combo laser/radar unit. Laser guns are very useful in traffic accident reconstruction, though.

10

My two cents. Disclaimer: IANAL or Judge, nor have I gotten a lot of tickets. Also, much depends on the laws of your state and the common practices of your local courts and individual judges.

Your best chance to walk away scot free is for the cop not to show. If he/she is not there to present evidence against you, the state has no case. You best chance to arrange that (other than hoping, praying, or taking illegal actions that no one here would condone) is to wait until you are assigned a court date, then call the court and tell them you can’t make it that day because of work (or whatever), and ask to reschedule. If you want to push your luck, try this twice.

As you described the stop, it seems as though the cop had some other reason for stopping you (instead of all the other faster cars) and when that didn’t pay off, he slapped you with the speeding charge. If he didn’t use radar or laser and only paced you (or didn’t even do that, but just made up the charge), it seems to me that your heavy traffic defense might be pretty good. So ** Freiheit**'s idea about using discovery to get the cop’s notes is excellent. (I have no idea how you would go about doing that, but a real lawyer will be along here shortly to tell you.)

The point is that you need to create a reasonable doubt in the judge’s mind about the evidence against you. The cop’s notes will be essential for that. If he really did have radar or laser or VASCAR (an undetectable timing system), then you better hope he doesn’t show up. But if he paced you, question him in detail about how long he had you in view, how far he was from you, how many other cars were between you, if he lost sight of you at any time, etc.

However, this may not help much either. At another forum I frequent, a poster showed the court mathematically how a cop who had claimed he had paced the driver after the cop made a U-turn to get behind him, couldn’t possibly have travelled the distance in question in the time the cop had testified to. The judge agreed with the defendant’s logic and math, but ruled him guilty anyway! He was appealing this verdict, but you can see that much rests in the hands of the judge.

So HBby’s suggestion of observing the judge’s behavior and attitude is another useful technique. I’ve sat in a court in which the judge seemed willing to believe anything the cops said, and another in which the judge basically prompted defendants on how to undermine the cop’s testimony. Some judges really resent cops trumping up charges against civilians and won’t let them get away with it if they can help it. Pay attention to the judge’s attitude in the cases before you. Hell, if you can manage it, try to sit in on your judge’s court before your trial date.

However, I strongly recommend against pleading guilty under almost any circumstances. You are innocent until proven guilty. The burden of proof is on the state to prove your guilt, and they don’t seem to have a strong case here. If you plead guilty and the cop isn’t there, you’ve just screwed yourself for no reason. I saw this happen to an acquaintance of mine who happened to be in court the same day as me.

I had been considering pleading guilty, too, until then, because my cop was present. But I pled not guilty, and she got up and said, The state has no evidence, your honor. Case dismissed. It turned out that the radar officer who had been with her at the stop was out sick, and he was the one with the evidence. I asked her to give him my best wishes for a quick recovery.

A final tip: this site has a lot of information (and is happy to sell you more) about fighting traffic tickets, especially radar tickets.

Good luck, and let us know how it turns out.

11

Unless I am mistaken, laser can’t be used from a moving patrol car, although some radars can. From the way the OP described the stop, it doesn’t seem as though the cop could have zapped him from a roadside position, although I guess another cop could have and radioed the info to the moving cop. But again, based on the heavy traffic mentioned in the OP, this seems unlikely, too.

12

Been there, done that. Just put a fork in yourself and plead “guilty with explanation” and request no points. Promise not to sin again and move on.

13

I know of no laser unit that can be used it the moving mode.
But in 20 years I’ve heard “Where the hell were you sitting”
50 gazzillion times. He could have been hiding under a bridge.

None of this means anything until we learn what the OP was clocked with. I will tell you this: It’s been many years since I’ve had to “professional coutesy” my way out of a ticket because I obey the law. But If it happened, and some cop ignored the badge in my wallet and gave me a ticket I’m 75% sure I could beat a vascar ticket in court, 90% sure I could beat a radar ticket in court, and 100% certain that if clocked with Laser I would LOSE!!:eek: I was one of the first officers in the entire state to use a Laser gun (an LTI 20/20 to be exact) and I have no idea how one would successfully defend against one.

14

Make sure you understand the state laws about use of radar. For example, in Georgia, if it is not a State Patrol cop, the cop has to be in a position clearly visible to motorists for 500 ft.

15

You have admitted you didn’t know how fast you were going… you said you were just staying with the traffic. :o

Now come on… the traffic is usually well over the speed limit so you think that gives you the right to speed. :smack:

Pay your ticket and start paying attention to your speed, everyone will be passing you but you won’t be getting speeding tickets. :wink:

16

:confused: Huh? Why would this be?
Cite?

17

In California, at least the last I knew, if you are going with the rest of the traffic and all of you are speeding you might, indeed be stopped for speeding. After all, one cop can only stop one car at a time. The catch is, that if all the other cars are exceeding the limit and you are stolidly obeying it, causing them all to pass you,
you might still get the ticket for obstructing the flow of traffic. No kidding. You’re damned if you do, and damned if you don’t.

18

Thanks for all of the info, experience, and advice. I would honestly give it a go and dispute, except for two points:

  1. My court date is smack dab in the middle of finals week, and

  2. I would have to drive for 4 hours to get back to the county my case is in.

Looks like I’m just going to have to mail it in and suck it up. Again, thanks for sharing.

19

I don’t know the details in your jurisdiction, but you should be able to plead not guilty by mail, and present your case in writing. Once again, having the cop’s notes through discovery would be a big help in making your case.

I found this at another one of my favorite forums my350z.com:

The poster is from California. YMMV. Good luck.

20

Originally posted by Gaijin
Thanks for all of the info, experience, and advice. I would honestly give it a go and dispute, except for two points:

  1. My court date is smack dab in the middle of finals week, and

You can request a continuance. Shouldn’t be too difficult. And the longer you draw it out, the less likely the cop is to show up.
quote:

  1. I would have to drive for 4 hours to get back to the county my case is in.

I have Nolo’s guide to fighting traffic tickets right here, and it says that in your state, you can have Trial by Declaration (by mail) “at the discretion of each court.” This is probably the best option for you. Two downsides are that you don’t get to cross-examine the officer and find weaknesses in his story, and you don’t get your case dismissed if the officer doesn’t show up to your trial. If you write out a good, convincing defense raising reasonable doubt, you’re off the hook. good luck.

Don’t give up!