I fought the law and the law _____!

Factual Questions
1

OK, need some advice from you legal eagles, and some opinions from everyone else.

I got a speeding ticket at the end of last month, I personally think the guy was out to fill a quota but thats another thread for GD.

I was speeding, but not anywhere near the rate he supposedly clocked me at. The ticket was for 71 mph in a 45 mph. The cops was very odd when he pulled me over, and was first very friendly, and then very hostile and agressive once I questioned him after he wrote the ticket. The fact he challenged me when I asked to see the gun is a big part of my motivation to consider contesting this. The gun did indeed display 71 mph, but why would he take the time to become belligerant after I asked to see the gun? He accused me of calling him a liar, etc. When I didn’t even mention that I disagreed with the measured speed, just asked for confirmation by seeing the gun. After its all said and done he didn’t mark the fact that the ticket was given in a construction zone (at 4 AM), which I’m not sure if its standard or not, because there isn’t a item on the ticket to check for it. So he may or may not have been cutting me a break.

Anyways the question I have is this. Considering that he cited me for driving 26 miles over the speed limit when I am very certain my gauge read no more than 15 over at any point, and most likely 10 over by the time he clocked me should I contest this ticket, and on what grounds? Based on my record I have three choices in the state of Illinois.

  1. Plead guilty, and pay a $95 fine ($75 if less than 20 miles over) and have it go on my record.
  2. Plead guilty and request traffic school and pay a $115 fine ($95 if less than 20 over)
  3. Plead not guilty and have a trial by judge.

Now, the easy thing to do is take option #2, my record is clean and its very important that this 24 year old single male keep any infractions off his record for insurance reasons. I could get my speedometer tested and attempt to determine if the radar gun was legitimate and I was mislead by the gauge (probably $30). The car is pretty new so I’m skeptical that it is faulty, and I also wonder what the warranty would cover in this case. Before I spend the money on getting the gauge tested I’d like to decide if its worth the time to have the trial, especially considering that I would have to spend 4 hrs in traffic school using option #2. On principle I want to prove that I wasn’t speeding at the rate I am accused of, but I still know I was speeding so I’m not sure its wise to argue that.

Legally what happens if the speedometer is off by 10 mph? That still places me in the 16 mph over category, are traffic court decisions all or nothing affairs? Could I expect to have the case dismissed?

Legally am I still eligible for traffic school if the judge hear my not guilty plea and disagrees?

Rumor has it that if the case goes to court you either get found not guilty, or found guilty and have the infraction reported to the state while paying a higher fine plus court costs.

Rumor also has it that speeding charges are very frequently (supposedly a majority) thrown out of court because the officer doesn’t show up at the hearing. Since this is in Cook county (Chicago) I imagine the State Troopers are pretty busy.

So, what is the smart thing to do? On most of the legal questions I don’t know where to find the answers. I can afford the ticket, but would obviously rather put that money to other uses. On principle I want to stand up for myself, and make note of the cops poor attitude and lack of respect. Has anyone ever bothered to contest a simple speeding ticket?

2

I had a similar debate with myself a few years ago. Here’s the way the law works in Missouri.

Say your speedometer is tested and found to be off. Too bad. It’s a piece of safety equipment and you’re expected to keep it in good repair. Guilty, next case.

Sorry to be so blunt about it, but the broken speedmoeter argument won’t get you anywhere by itself.

Your best option in this case is to hire one of those sleazy traffic law lawyers who will get the charge reduced to a non-moving violation (if you really got the ticket because they were trying to make a quota, the local court will usually be quite willing to play this game as long as it’s simple speeding.) of course you’ll wind up paying the same fine, or even somewhat more.

So your options basically come out to:
Plead guilty, pay the fine, take the points and go on your way.

Pay to have your speedometer checked and re-calibrated, plead guilty, throw yourself on the mercy of the court and be prepared to at least pay the fine.

Pay to have your speedometer checked and re-calibrated, plead not guilty, get found guilty (your argument isn’t that you weren’t speeding, only that you weren’t speeding as much as the radar said you were, right?) because you can’t prove the radar wasn’t right. You’ll still get the fine and the points, unless the trooper doesn’t show up.

Plead guilty, pay the fine and try to get traffic school.

Pay to have your speedometer checked and re-calibrated, pay to have a sleazy lawyer work out a deal with traffic court, plead guilty to something like driving with non-working equipment and pay a fine at least equal to the speeding fine.

Convinced of the righteousness of my cause (and wanting to have a functioning speedometer anyway), I went with the last option. I got no points, but it cost me about 4 times what the ticket alone would have cost.

As far as complaining about the cop’s poor attitude, that won’t get you very far in court, although you can always file a complaint with the State Police.

3

Or you could plead “not guilty”, and hope the cop doesn’t show up in court (happens about half the time). If he doesn’t, you win.

4

I’m sorry, but if traffic school is an option, I’d have to recommend that. Everyone gets so stressed out about having to waste a 4-6 hours of their time, so they blow twice the cash to fight the ticket (sometimes unsuccessfully I might add which blows time AND cash). Yes you can get out of it if the cop is a no show, but I’d hardly say that’s 50% of the time. Usually (in California anyway) you have to plead not guilty to get a court date, but then the judge will let you reverse your plea if you see the cop is there the day you show up.

Ultimately, I’d bet you’d spend more time and money even fighting and winning your case (lost work hours don’t forget) so it’s hardly worth it. Besides, I hear about crooked traffic schools all the time where you just pay the fee and they give you the form to mail in with no class, or else give you a video tape to watch ‘on your honor’ that you return the next day (without watching it of course) and they give you the form.

But that’s just one Yarster’s opinion

5

I don’t know about other states, but here in Florida we have the option of taking a driver safety course in cases like this. The charge is wiped off your record (so you can truthfully say you still have no tickets), the fees are about the same as paying the fine, & no lawyer or court appearance is required. They only let you do this a few times.

6

I was driving back from northern Wisconsin last Saturday and got pulled over by Wisconsin’s Finest for going 79 in a 65. I don’t think cops filling quotas is a topic for GD but rather The Pit. As I commute around the Chicago area I’ve had police pass me when I was going 75 in a 55 (and they weren’t chasing anybody…just cruising along)!

FYI my ticket for 14 mph over will cost $150! I’d lay dollars to dimes I wouldn’t have been pulled over if I had Wisconsin plates (I had two cars with Wisconsin plates pass me not 3 minutes earlier). The jerk knows I’m not going to drive 6 hours (one-way) to show-up for a traffic ticket. Part of me wants to show just cuz…

To add insult to injury this is my first ticket in 12 years and it happens with my parents and wife in the car!

Anyway, as to the OP, the cop walked to my window and the first thing he said was, “I have a lock on my radar gun of your car going 79 mph. Would you like to see it?” Maybe this is SOP in Wisconsin…I dunno. They probably do this to decrease your chances of fighting the ticket later. I didn’t bother looking at the radar because, like it or not, I was going that fast and I knew it.

Granted I haven’t been in an Illinois traffic court for over a decade but before that time I was quite familiar with them. Things probably have changed but every time I got a ticket I went to traffic court. Only once did I pleade not guilty and every time the cop was there. I was also found guilty every time but here’s the kicker. I’d get a fine but not have the ticket applied to my record…sometimes they’d reduce the fine as well (and I never once got sent to traffic school). Twice when I got my license renewed the state would give me that little card that complimented you on a perfect driving record (even though there were about 8 tickets crammed in there somewhere). Unfortunately Illinois stopped giving those out even though they were worthless–insurance companies didn’t care and neither did the police if I got pulled over again.

Mind you…this was back in the 80’s and pre-computer so maybe they couldn’t track so well. Things may be very different now. Still…it paid off well back then to show for court.

One last thing. If you go to court dress nicely. I always wore a tie and slacks and I think it helped. While it may be unfair I think showing up in a tank top, unwashed shorts and $2 flip-flops will not aid your case (and I’ve seen people in traffic court dressed like that).

Good luck!

7

To add to your chances that the cop won’t be there, ask for a continuance as soon as you receive a court date; hopefully, you’ll have a good reason for a continuance at hand. A continuance means delaying or “putting off” the trial for a while, buying you time.

In my experience (admittedly not extensive), the court tries to set its schedule so that all of a given officer’s tickets are heard on one day. By getting a continuance, you throw a wrench in that system. The cop doesn’t want to waste any more of his time than he has to, so the odds are pretty good that he won’t make a special trip to the courthouse just for one ticket.

Last time I asked for a continuance, I didn’t hear from the court for a year. By then, the officer could well have retired or transferred to somewhere else. So, ask for that continuance; it’s often well worth it.

8

Omni-- Please note item #12…This is probably what got ya (since rush ‘hour’ in Chicago is more like rush 18 hours it’s easy to forget that the speed limit might actually be enforced once in awhile). Personally I found #'s 1, 2, 3, 6, 13, 14, 18, 19, 21, 22 and 26 to be especially appropriate for driving in Chicago.

Chicago Rules Of The Road

  1. A right lane construction closure is just a game to see how many people can cut in line by passing you on the right as you sit in the left lane waiting for the same jerks to squeeze their way back in before hitting the orange construction barrels.

  2. Turn signals will give away your next move. A real Chicago driver never uses them.

  3. Under no circumstances should you leave a safe distance between you and the car in front of you, or the space will be filled in by somebody else putting you in an even more dangerous situation.

  4. Crossing two or more lanes in a single lane-change is considered going with the flow.

  5. The faster you drive through a red light, the smaller the chance you have of getting hit.

  6. Never get in the way of an older car that needs extensive bodywork. Illinois is a no-fault insurance state and the other guy doesn’t have anything to lose.

  7. Braking is to be done as hard and late as possible to ensure that your ABS kicks in, giving a nice, relaxing foot massage as the brake pedal pulsates.

  8. For those of you without ABS, it’s a chance to stretch your legs.

  9. Construction signs tell you about road closures immediately after you pass the last exit before the traffic begins to back up.

  10. The new electronic traffic warning system signs are not there to provide useful information. They are only there to make Chicago look high-tech and to distract you from seeing the Chicago police car parked in the median.

  11. Never pass on the left when you can pass on the right. It’s a good way to scare people entering the highway.

  12. Speed limits are arbitrary figures, given only as suggestions and are apparently not enforceable in the Chicago area during rush hour.

  13. Just because you’re in the left lane and have no room to speed up or move over doesn’t mean that a Chicago driver flashing his high beams behind you doesn’t think he can go faster in your spot.

  14. Please remember that there is no such thing as a shortcut during rush-hour traffic in Chicago.

  15. Always slow down and take a really good long look when you see an accident or even someone changing a tire.

  16. Throwing litter on the roads adds variety to the landscape keeps the existing litter from getting lonely and gives Adopt-a-highway crews something to clean up.

  17. Everybody thinks his or her vehicle is better than yours, especially the pick-up truck drivers with stickers of Calvin peeing on a Ford, Dodge or Chevy logo.

  18. Learn to swerve abruptly. Chicago is the home of high-speed slalom driving thanks to IDOT, which puts potholes in key locations to test drivers’ reflexes and keep them on their toes.

  19. It is traditional in Chicago to honk your horn at cars that don’t move the instant the light changes.

  20. Seeking eye contact with another driver revokes your right of way.

  21. Never take a green light at face value. Always look right and left before proceeding.

  22. Remember that the goal of every Chicago driver is to get there first by whatever means necessary.

  23. Real Chicago women drivers can put on pantyhose and apply eye makeup at seventy-five miles per hour in bumper-to-bumper traffic.

  24. Real Chicago men drivers can remove pantyhose and a bra at seventy-five miles per hour in bumper-to-bumper traffic.

  25. Heavy snows, ice, fog, and rain are no reasons to change any of the previously listed rules. These weather conditions are God’s way of ensuring natural selection process for body shops, junkyards, and new vehicle sales.

  26. In the Chicago area, flipping someone the bird is considered an Illinois salute, this gesture should always be returned.

9

WRONG!! Turn signals are to be used to trick out the other drivers. Never use them to telegraph your actual intentions, but rather to fool the other drivers.

10

I don’t know about in other states, but if you plea not guilty and go to court, even if you change your plea when you see the cop showed up, you lose the option to take Defensive Driving (or whatever they call it in your area). I found this out recently by personal experience.

So if it is important to keep it off of your record and you aren’t the gambling type, just plea guilty and take the class. If Defensive Driving is not an option (in Texas you can’t remove a ticket with it if you were going over 30 over the limit) then plea not guilty and hope the cop doesn’t show up.

11

Omni, is this in traffic court downtown or in one of the suburban courthouses?

12

State trooper, so I can choose which ever courthouse is most convenient. Probably North Chicago somewhere.

13

Hmmm… It’s been a while since I got a state ticket, but something doesn’t seem right. With traffic school, you get a choice of sites. I’ve never seen a ticket with a choice of courthouses for the trial, though.

Anyway, here’s what I recommend. Appear at the trial date. Watch carefully when the cops arrive. If your guy isn’t there, you ask the judge to dismiss your case, because the State doesn’t have a witness.

If the cop is there, you have two choices. You can approach the prosecutor and request nonreporting supervision. You’ll pay a fine, but if you don’t get another ticket for the supervision period, you won’t get anything on your record. Or, you can ask for a continuance and appear again on the new date and hope that the cop doesn’t show up.

State troopers tend to show up more than Chicago cops, but it’s worth a try. Also, things tend to be a little stricter on the supervision issue in the suburbs, which is why I asked about the site of the hearing.

14

BTW, do you prefer the Bobby Fuller Four version or the Clash remake?

15

Remember that if you don’t “plea” via the ticket process, but go to court and lose, the judge has no particular reason to issue the scheduled “fine” amount originally offered except for convenience’s sake. Rather, he just has to follow the statutory guidelines, and any other sentencing guideline restrictions for that jurisdiction. If he’s feeling magnanimous or is overloaded, it might be just for the original amount and other optional elements, such as traffic school, but that’s a risk. Risk increases in inverse proportion to the court’s sympathy, so it’s up to you how far you want to take blaming the cop.

The “fine” (and the option for traffic school) are actually standardized elements of a “short-form plea-bargain”, if you will. It’s not actually a fine, but “forfeiture of collateral”. The statute for, say speeding, doesn’t specify any particular fine, but rather a maximum fine. The idea is to reduce the burden on the court (and the costs to taxpayers) by setting some amount that covers the fine for given violation, such as speeding, if the alleged violator pleas out (typically, the technical plea for tickets isn’t “guilty” but a “nolo contendere”). Setting the amount is usually done periodically by the various enforcement agencies, submitted for review to the local, state or fed’l prosecutor’s office as appropriate, and then submitted to the court in question for approval.

For a different scenario, a state park ranger might write up 50 trespassers over a year, normally issuing a ticket for whatever amount, say 50$. But it doesn’t mean a particularly malicious trespasser can’t be formally charged, with the State Parks seeking the max. (Some see this in reverse: “If I excercise my right to go to court, the fine is potentially increased !”. Really, everyone can go to court, and go through the full process - the fine is the shortcut out.)

As always, check with a lawyer from your jurisdiction, but given the option to pay a c-note, take a class and keep the points off ? I’d take it. Good luck.

16

Random, you are correct, when skimming I misread the list of traffic school locations as the list of court locations. The ticket envelope is addressed to a clerk’s court in Bridgeview, and near southwest side suburb. That changes this significantly, it is a huge burden for me to get to that court house. In past experiences the suburbs had had a handful of satilite courthouses that you could choose from after recieving a date. In this case I can’t see it being worth the trip to the courthouse on a weekday. I think I may ask for a court date anyways, and then see if they can move the location since its a Cook county courthouse. I’ll probably just try and take up some of the corts time and effort and see if any chips fall in my favor. If theres no room for flexibility I’ll just request supervision and plead guilty.

Since there hasn’t been a real clear answer to the most pressing concern, I’ll ask it again. My decision is gonna be based on this: Is there any reason that by requesting a court date, I forfeit my right to request court supervision/traffic school without standing before a judge at a later date? In other words, the “Ooops, I changed my mind, just send me to school” strategy.

17

Omni, as this is in Cook County, your ticket is one of thousands in the system at any one time. I wouldn’t count on individual attention outside of the normal process. In other words, once you ask for a trial date, you better count on showing up at that time. As a rule, Cook County clerks are kind of surly and unhelpful (although the suburban courthouse clerks are somewhat better), so even if someone who you reach on the phone has the power to help you (by changing to traffic school for example), you most likely won’t get anywhere.

That said, you can still show up and ask for whatever you want at the court date. It’s all up to the prosecutor and the judge, though. Hey, you might get lucky. Traffic prosecutors are mostly right out of law school. At least half are women. Turn on the charm and you might not only get out of the ticket, but get a date out of it as well.
Seriously, if you are polite and have a halfway decent traffic record, you probably will do okay. If you are still a student (IIRC, you recently finished engineering school?), you might be able to get the supervision fee/fine reduced. And as I said before, there is a decent chance that the cop won’t even show, which means you walk. (Pray that Gore is campaigning somewhere in Illinois on that day and all the cops are busy with that.) Good luck.

18

Yes: it isn’t a right. It is an incentive granted by the judge to avoid the court date. Whether the incentive is lost if you choose to start the process, making them set up a court date, would be a localized question best answered by someone familiar with the specific process at your district - but it’s likely. Kinda defeats the purpose otherwise.