Speaking of the Police State
https://www.courthousenews.com/2013/07/03/59061.htm
Read the whole thing, it’s seriously fucked up. If it wasn’t the 4th I would start a topic
You appear to have a serious problem with your police force. The ones here are far from brilliant, and have some definite problems, but the stuff your link describes is on a whole different level of totalitarian excess.
Hey, it’s not MY police, that was Vegas. I actually live in a really good area with police that are considerate and well trained, and save dogs, rather than shoot them.
But yeah, that is some seriously fucked up shit there.
Indeed. Works also in fiction. People are more upset by the on-screen death of a dog than by the half-dozen human victims.
Dog attacks police officer (or whoever else, as far as I’m concerned), dog gets killed. The story unfolded as it should have. As apaled as I am by the apparent trigger happy attitude of cops in some area of the USA, on the basis of the threads opened on this board, this definitely isn’t a situation that will bother me.
Just in case any non Americans are reading this and don’t understand America
That should clear things up.
Except, of course, the dog did not attack anybody. But that’s just a minor detail.
Bullshit. Lunge = attack. Maybe not in your canine-sensitive world, but I the real world, if a dog does anything like “lunge” at me - teeth bared or not, I don’t give a fuck – and I have a lethal weapon, that dog is going to die. Immediately. It has nothing to do with whether or not I’m a cop.
I agree that the dog wasn’t being aggressive initially (just barking, no growling or snarling). That being said, I primarily came in here to say that, having watched the video, I am really upset that no one shot again to put that poor dog out of his misery . . . my god, after he was shot and rolled around then got back up and tried to walk . . . I am tearing up just thinking about it.
Did the police think maybe the dog would live and so didn’t want to kill him? Were they just too startled to react appropriately?
My god what an awful way for a loyal companion to die.
You’re so tough.
Well, maybe. Maybe not. It’s real easy for you to say it sitting at your keyboard.
Frankly, the risk isn’t worth it. I don’t particularly trust cops either, but a dog is a small price to pay to avoid a fairly significant risk of a person being badly mauled.
Did you see the cop try to grab the dog collar right before it lunged at him?
Their first response was to do nothing, I would have shot it as soon as it started running towards me. then when the dog attacked them they shot it dead.
Thats because you aren’t listening. If the cops had shot a dog that was tied to a leash or locked up inside a car, then I’d be outraged. But thats not what happened, they shot a dog that was attacking them. I would have done it a lot sooner than they did.
You aren’t sticking up for a dog, you are damning cops who engaged in self defense because you think they could have avoided shooting the dog with what you consider minimal risk to themselves. I don’t think they are obligated to take that risk and frankly I don’t want them to take that risk.
Yeah, I hear you, they could have done things differently and it might have prevented the dog from getting shot. From what I can tell, there were less than 30 second between the dog jumping out of the car and the dog getting shot. If I have to choose between spending training time ingraining proper procedure when confronted by an aggresive dog belonging to a low risk person in custody versus almost anything else, then almost anything else wins and I want the cop to shoot any dog that attacks them no matter the situation.
I am also not a huge fan of cops (mostly based on my anecdotal experience of the people I know who became cops and my experience with cops in LA) but I don’t find fault in what that cop did. I feel bad for the dog and i wish it didn’t happen but given a choice between a dead dog and an injured cop, I pick dead dog every day of the week.
With dogs? Yeah, shoot them if they are off a leash and acting aggresively.
With people, not so much.
If the dog was doing to me what that dog was doing and a cop standing nearby DIDN’T shoot the dog, I would be pissed off at the cop and yelling at him to shoot the damn dog.
It sure looked like it was attacking to me. I think a cop could reasonably believe the dog was attacking. I think the cop gets the benefit of that doubt.
It can’t help that it picked the wrong owner to be loyal to, its instinctive.
Dogs are better people than a lot of their owners and I think this might have been the case here. Like Eddard Stark, this dog died of loyalty.
Sometimes they surely do. Not on the this one. (and how it looked to uneducated eyes is my point: educate the goddamn cops. It’s really not that complicated.) Starting with the fact that they guy they were arresting practically jumped into their arms and begged to be handcuffed, then demonstrated remarkable control over the dog in chaotic circumstances, there was ZERO reason not to let him deal with the dog. NONE.
Apparently this local police department really could give two shits about what the United States Department of Justice has to say on this very topic.
Oh, to be on the sidewalk when a Department of Justice officer in plain clothes videotapes a police officer.
The Department of Justice doesnt make or decide law. It doesnt matter what they say other than as informed opinion.
Which are good reasons for me not to trust your opinion about such an issue. If you value a dog’s life more than a human’s life…well, I deleted all I wrote…your statement speaks for itself.
Oh…and if you were the guy arrested, you’d take revenge on the cop? This too speaks for itself…
The thing is, AnthonyElite and Strikingly Thick-headed Obtuse Unintelligent Dolt, the law seems to take a decidely different view of the relative merits of the life of a human being and [del]property[/del] [del]an animal that could be used as a weapon[/del] a dog than you appear to take.
Drat. That should be:
Strikingly Thick-headed Obtuse un-Intelligent Dolt. Carry on with the carrying on, please.
Gosh, it would have been nice had one of the officers been able to control the attacking dog with his mind and alpha dog presence, but sadly this wasn’t Dog Whisperer PD.
A word to the wise: If you want to fuck around with people carrying guns, keep your beloved dog locked up, especially if it’s a big breed known for attacking people.
BTW, I’m a huge animal lover and support shelters and pro-animal lobbies. That doesn’t mean that I would ever put a human’s life ahead of a dog’s.
I think you’re wrong. And most of the non-PETA types here seem to think so as well. As far as I can tell, this is coming down to opinion and your opinion is really no better than ours its just skewed heavily in favor of doing every fucking thing possible to save a dog’s life regardless of the cost to society. I don’t want my police department spending a lot of time training their cops to be sensistive enough to determine when the dog that is attacking them isn’t “really” attacking them and when the dog needs to be shot. I want them to be safe and spend time training how to better deal with shit like domestic violence and youth gangs. If someone can’t keep their dog on a leash and it gets shot, then thats unfortunate but I won’t have my police department jump through hoops to save a dog with a stupid owner.
I don’t think he got arrested for videotaping the cops. if you were paying attention, you would notice that the guys that videotaped the dog getting shot were also videotaping the cops and you will also notice that there were several other people videotaping the cops.
That jackass didn’t get arrested for videotaping. Its not clear to me why he was arrested but it seems clear that he knew he was provoking the cops and his carelessness with his dog ended up getting his dog killed.
“Could have” are the operative words. Understand, I handle animals every day, some of them far more aggressive and potentially dangerous than the dog in question. Reading the probable actions of these critters and preventing mayhem to myself and others is my wheelhouse. And I agree that imparting that skill set to LEOs would be problematic. So although I regret the action taken, and though my own evaluation of the circumstances is that the dog was not being aggressive, I can see that other people without specialized training could reasonably believe that it was. And so, at that moment, the shooting was justified.
But back to the “could have” – I maintain it is “should have”. The situation didn’t require specialized training in procedure, nor a snap decision about public risk assessments regarding dangerous animals versus custodial detention. Really, the guy was apparently being an annoyance. But he wasn’t (by any testimony I’ve seen) dangerous. He probably was recognized by somebody who decided that payback involved hassling him on whatever excuse presented itself. So they arrested him for playing loud music, stretched into “interference” because playing music isn’t really a violation. Given this, any cop with the brains bog gave green apples should have (IM not so HO) just said “Oh hell, go grab your dog and put it up before something unfortunate happens, then we’ll get back to your detention”. Not because procedure allowed it, or his/her training required it, but simply because it would obviously (to nearly anyone) be the right thing to do. And the dog would still be alive.