Unfortunate circumstance or police misconduct?

Great Debates
1

From this report:

The news story is pretty long, but goes something like this:

  1. James Smoak left his wallet on top of the car while filling up at a gas station.

  2. The wallet goes flying off the car when they leave. A passerby with a cellphone, apparently assuming a crime was being commited when they saw the wallet go flying, calls the police.

  3. Police (the Tennesse State Police and Cookeville Police) conduct a felony stop, ordering James, his wife Pamela, and his son Brandon out of the car at gunpoint, and have them lie face down on the ground while they are handcuffed.

  4. The family begs the officers to close the car doors so their dogs don’t get out. They are ignored.

  5. One of the family’s bulldogs (note: not a pit bull) gets out of the car and approaches an officer, who shoots it dead.

  6. Second car arrives with the other two children of James and Pamela Smoaks, along with the grandparents.

  7. Identity is finally verified and the Smoaks are allowed out of the cuffs.

  8. Brandon Smoaks runs to his dog’s body and starts crying. Officer who shot dog allegedly grins.

The police version of the story is here.

The officer (a Cookeville Police officer) who shot the dogs claims he was not grinning or laughing, and that the dog was charging him and would not “get back”. The Cookeville Police were not aware of the nature of the supposed crime, only that the State Police had asked for their assistance in a felony stop.

“Officials at the Tennessee Highway Patrol station…say the whole incident is being reviewed.”

Picturing myself in this situation, I get very angry. How does the report of a wallet blowing off a car get transformed into a felony stop? Why are requests from suspects to close a car door totally ignored? Is it a “don’t you tell me what to do!” kind of power trip? Is this sort of police behavior becoming more common, or is it just being reported more often?

2

Just like with postal employees going “postal,” I think it’s a case of one or more ass holes putting all the good (or at least, average) cops in a bad light.

I wish I knew more about citizen’s rights so I could have more insight on proper behavior in these situations. Some one will come along and enlighten us in a bit, I’m sure.

3

Even if the dog was a danger to the officer, which it probably wasn’t (and definately wouldn’t have been if officers shut the door as asked) It was very heartless and unnecesary of the officer to murder the dog - apparently without hesitation. The dog was very very unlikely to endanger his life. maybe his pants and leg, but not his life.
Horrible disgusting excuse for a human being, policeman or not.

4

How do you know that it was heartless and unnecessary of the officer to kill the dog, were you there? Can you give me a logical reason why the officer should allow the dog to bite him, possibly causing long term injuries, instead of shooting it before it had the chance?

I don’t know if the officers in this case acted correctly given the situation. Personally I’d shoot a dog if I felt that I was in immediate danger of being bitten.

Marc

5

The police didn’t “murder” the dog. They killed the dog.

6

“Murder” is being used properly here, Mr. Cheruscan, re one of Dictionary.com’s numerous references.

v. tr.

  1. To kill (another human) unlawfully. (one usage.)
  2. To kill brutally or inhumanly. (another, different, usage of same word.)
  • From a second reference on same site:
    2. To destroy; to put an end to. (yet another usage)

I don’t know whether this officer was within the law or not to kill the animal. However I do consider his judgement poor for allowing this situation to progress as it did. A simple closed door would have saved A) a bullet B) a lot of grief and C) a life. Not a human life, maybe, but a life that WAS valued by the dog’s owners.

7

Does anyone really buy the policeman’s story?

Let’s look at the facts:

  1. At best, they are making a stop for an unknown reason. How are they supposed to know what they are looking for? A felony stop? Is it murder, bank fraud, having sex with bulldogs? How would they know what to do? Obviously, they didn’t. You don’t go pulling out rifles to cover felony bank fraud. In addition, you have to wonder what they are doing. Do they think that the entire family was involved in the alleged crime? I can see it now: “Dad, mom, son and two dogs from North Carolina go on crime spree in Cookeville. Manage to steal one wallet that possesses the driver’s license of the perp.” That just doesn’t add up.

  2. Do you really think the family let the dog out of the car? Why would the police, if they have half a brain, not realize that dogs may charge if allowed out of confinement? Maybe they were so arrogant, they considered the pleas of the “perps” to be beneath them. Are we seeing some attitude here?

According to the victims:

“I asked the officer who was standing next to my son, about two feet from the open door to please shut the door so my dog wouldn’t get out. I asked him several times, and he refused to shut the door.”

  1. Shooting a bulldog before it attacks? Did he not have a nightstick? Puh-lease!!!

In addition, the story of the two police officers are different. The shooter claims:

"Suddenly, a dog, I believe to be a pit-bull, jumped from the suspect vehicle, singled me out from the other officers, and charged toward me growling in an aggressive manner.

"I yelled at the dog to ‘get back’ but it attempted to circle me to attack, so I felt that I had no other option but to protect myself.

His compatriot, the brave officer covering the handcuffed mom and son from behind a car door states:

“A dog exited the vehicle and focused on Officer Hall. The dog rapidly approached Officer Hall. Officer Hall stepped backwards and yelled get back. The dog continued toward the officer as he stepped back. Officer Hall shot the dog at the point that the dog would not retreat.”

Where is the circling? Aside from the inconsistency, look at the absurdity.

Officer One: "I yelled at the dog to ‘get back’ but it attempted to circle me to attack, so I felt that I had no other option but to protect myself.

Officer Two: “Officer Hall stepped backwards and yelled get back. The dog continued toward the officer as he stepped back. Officer Hall shot the dog at the point that the dog would not retreat.”

So basically, they killed the dog because it did not know the command “Get Back.” How ridiculous. They give the dog a command, point a gun, and then shoot when the dog does not comprehend and obey? Unfreakinbelievable.

Notice that in neither of the stories does the dog snarl, growl, bark, or actually attack. Unless of course one considers that ominous “circling.”

Now, instead of yelling “get back” maybe the keystone cop should have listened to the son:

“My dog then came out of the car and ran towards the officer with the shotgun and flashlight. We started yelling to please let us get him, don’t shoot, he was only barking at the flashlight and jumping at the light. My son plays with him using a flashlight.”

Why turn off a flashlight when you could simply yell “Get back!” Who on earth teaches their dog the “get back” command anyway? Maybe “down,” or “Stay”, but “Get back” Friggin moron!!!
This was a group of undertrained yahoos who had a hard-ons to be carrying weapons, and who did not know the first thing about making a proper police stop, investigation, or common sense. If the officers in question do not lose their jobs, something is seriously wrong. If the general populace did such an act they would be in prison, and should be. Wearing a badge makes the officer no less culpable, and in fact makes them more culpable in my book.
Of course, an investigation is underway. The department will probably call the officers actions “heroic” and claim that he is a model that his community can take pride in. If Officer Hall, et al. are Cookeville’s finest, may the Lord have mercy on us all. ::insert Deliverance music here.::

8

**

What’s he suppose to do with his shotgun while he’s fiddling around with his club? It isn’t as if he can just put it down. Keep in mind that this was all taking place as they were cuffing the suspects.

**

Did you bother reading what you posted?

**

Gee, looks to me like someone stated there was some aggressive growling. Furthermore you quoted the son as saying.

**

Gee, look at that. There was barking according to the son. So far one person said it growled and another said that the dog was barking.

**

Detached reflection cannot be expected in the presence of an uplifted knife. I don’t remember who said that. What it boils down to is that people who perceive themselves to be in life threatening situations don’t have time to think about ever single situation in such a short period of time. I seriously doubt the officer ever trained on how to stop a canine suspect. He’s probably yelled “get back” because that’s what he was trained to say to a human.

**

It seems to me that they made a proper felony stop. Who authorized them to make a felony stop? There were at least 3-4 officers involved in it.

I’m sorry, what does Deliverance have anything to do with this story? Oh, I see. This story took place in the south so let’s show off our bigotry with pride.

Marc

9

McGibson, give it up. The pigs were in the wrong and you know it. What kind of a cocksucker grins after he murders a dog?

Yeah, I said “murdered,” what are you gonna do about it? Murderers, murderers, murderers.

10

(addressing serenitynow’s points)

  1. A wallet falling from a car and a call from a concerned citizen set this all off.

The officers could have been dealing with anything from a kidnapping to a robbery, with many possibilities in between. You enjoy the benifit of having all of the facts laid out for you, while you review them in a stress-free enviroment. The responding officers most likely got a 'Cars XX and XX, respond to a possible 925 (whatever their code for a kidnapping is), blue minivan, make and model, etc).

They must go in preparing for the worst. An officer that approached each stop with an attitude of ‘Oh ho hum, I bet this is all a big misunderstanding’ will not remain an officer for long, one way or another.

  1. It’s a safe bet that they ignored “the pleas of the perps”. When officers are investigating a situation, much less making an arrest, you would be amazed at the various pleas and offers proffered to the officers on the scene. COPS doesn’t show shit compared to what actually happens, and I am coming from the perspective of a former reservist in a nice suburban dept.

  2. No, they probably didn’t have nightsticks. Thanks to various issues, perhaps best left to another topic, many departments no longer allow officers to carry nightsticks. Many are also moving away from ‘Mag-Lite’ type flashlight, and towards Sure-Fire types, which have zero use, other then illumination.

Generally, a more-affluent department will have electronic less-then-lethal gizmos (tasers and stunguns; extremely difficult to employ against charging dogs, the user will most likely suffer injury during the use), while the less monied will have simple chemical irritants (better, but takes more time to get out of holster, ready, and use).

Canine attacks are not to be taken lightly. Did the officers respond properly in this case? There isn’t enough information in the story to really say. The cruiser footage will tell a far better story then the people on the scene will.

11

There were no “perps”.
There was no “canine attack.”

How would you feel if your family was dragged out your car at gunpoint and your family dog was murdered?
Some people will make any excuse for the cops no matterc what they do.

How difficult would it have been just to close the damn car door?
How stupid were these pigs that they couldn’t tell immediately that there was no fucking crisis? What the hell did they think was going on in the car? These are nothing but sadistic arrogant punks, and they need to get raped in prison.

12

For those of you who automatically leap to defend the cops no matter what…

Can’t you please just acknowledge the pain of the victims here? Can we agree that this family did nothing to deserve the way they were treated? I’m so tire of cops getting a free pass for virtually anything because, “they’re making split-second decisions,” or “they don’t know what could be going on in the car.” These are lame and pathetic excuses. If they can’t tell the difference between a gang and a family then they shouldn’t be cops.

Please try to rise above your knee-jerk response of “…must…asskiss…cops…must…asskiss…cops…”

13

Correct. But there were suspects. All perps begin as suspects.

According to the officer’s report, that is incorrect. Like I said, video evidence could shed a lot of light on this.

Probably pretty bad.

Without seeing a sketch of where the various cars were, where the suspects were, etc, it is difficult to say.

Ah. Pigs. Very nice.

But why couldn’t the police officers tell immediately that there was no fucking crisis? Because it takes time to determine what was actually going on. Identities need to be established, checks run, etc.

As for the prison rape, well, if that floats your boat, daydream about it all you want.

14

I must have misread the sign above the door. I could have sworn this was Great Debates and not the Pit.

Marc

15

Anyone want to guess the skin color of the persons involved?
Didn’t think so.

For frame-of-reference: US troops killed Vietnamese kids because they did not obey english-language commands. (yes, I have first-hand testimonies).

16

Pigs??? That, sir, is completely uncalled for.

I don’t have a problem with them shooting the dog. Once the dog is outside the car, it was a threat. That said, it could have easily been avoided, if the family’s account is correct. It does seem the cops over-reacted, which could have made the dog more agitated.

But I wasn’t there, so I don’t why the cops felt it necessary to act that way, or what the family’s demeanor was before that.

17

Sure you do.

18

Brutus -

I personally know the shooter.

Kindly shut up, moron.

19

-What unit was he in? (Battalion/Division will suffice.)

-Where did this deed take place?

-What year?
Those simple facts would go a long ways towards showing the authenticity of your goofy little friends action.

Until those are revealed, (and more, but we have to start somewhere), I stand by my assertion that you are lying.

20

Batt/Div - have no idea. his behavior disgusted me, so I really didn’t get into it.

USMC, south 'nam, some small village, 68-69 (he married my sister in 71).

Approx. 8-yr old boy came running toward the group from a “hostile” village, did not respond to “Stop”, and was shot dead.