The Beginning of the Resurection of my Marriage ???

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
21

Belrix, a couple of questions…

Do I really want to stay together? Not really
Do I love her? Yes, but maybe not in that way anymore. I dunno.
Do I trust her? No. I don’t trust her to stay faithful and I don’t trust her moneywise, either.
Do I think I can make it work? Yes, if I sacrifice my self-worth.

Strangely, I can imagine what it’ll be like without her and it’s not all bad. I worry stongly for my kids. Last week, in the days before payday, we had nearly no food in the house and she was out of cash again. I worry my kids might be hungry in her care. Friday was payday and today, Tuesday, she has $74 left in her account. She just “borrowed” $100 from my account, the supposed family account, so she could go shopping for clothing for an interview. I paid $100 last month on my personal credit card toward her cell phone bill so it wasn’t shut off.

I know I can’t stay with her just for the kids’ sakes - they’d eventually see the sham and feel at fault for being the reason we’d stay together. I’ve counseled a close friend with an alcoholic wife that his kids need a stable home more than they need two parents in the home. I know this is true but it’s hard to apply when it’s your own kids.

PunditLisa, I’m with you on the nostalgia. Hindsight is not 20/20 - it’s a way of filtering reality to see what you want to see.

I practice a form of music therapy as I drive down the road. I find that I focus on different things in music as my mood changes. Way back, I remember playing the hell out of Styx’s “Lady” when I was in love:

Lady when I’m with you I’m smiling
Give me all your love
Your hands build me up when I’m sinking
Touch me and my troubles all fade

Some mornings it’s angry music, some mornings it’s peaceful music. This morning I found myself with Billy Joel:
Well so here I am at the end of the road
Where do I go from here?
I always figured it would be like this
Still nothing seems to be quite clear

All the words have been spoken and the prophecy fulfilled
But I just can’t decide where to go
Yes, it’s been quite a day and I should go to sleep
But tomorrow I will wake up and I’ll know

That I’ve got to begin again
Though I don’t know how start
Yes, I’ve got to begin again
And it’s hard
…
And despite all the truth that’s been thrown in my face
I just can’t get you out of my mind
…
Yes, I’ve got to begin again
And it’s hard

“Despite all the truth that’s been thrown in my face” for sure. Up until Saturday, I was sure what *she *wanted, even if thought I didn’t know what I wanted. Now I find that I’m scared about becoming closer to my wife again. I’ve got some distance I’ve been maintaining and I feel better for it, even though it means, figuratively, pushing her back a bit over the past couple days. I fear that if were to dive back into this shit-pile, re-invest my feelings and effort, I’d just get kicked in the balls again. Agreeing to separate is, in its way, liberating.

eleanorigby, I agree. I would be easier if we had obvious reasons to divorce. If she really succeeded in cheating on me, if she abused the kids. We’ve faded away over time, I guess. My parents reminded me that during their last visit, a year ago, I was complaining about the amount of time she spent out of the house with her friends. Doesn’t seem that long ago but it’s been a year.

I find myself envying my friend above with the alcoholic wife - at least her overt problem is obviously detrimental to her kids & husband.

Bit-by-bit the marriage has unraveled. I told my parents yesterday that I can’t return to the marriage under the same rules as before. I told them that I can’t return to the marriage we had even two-years ago. And I can’t wind back the clock to who she and I once were.

Much as I hate to admit it, I think I’m done.

22

I’m not giving you any high-fives because I know it’s nothing to celebrate. But I’m glad you are starting to enter a self-preservation mode because it isn’t healthy to be in a marriage where you feel you have no power. Good for you. You shouldn’t have to sacrifice your self worth to save a marriage.

Oh, and as far as music therapy goes, avoid Bonnie Raitt’s “I Can’t Make You Love Me” at all costs. I’m not going through what you are and it makes ME want to leap off a bridge. :slight_smile:

23

Belrix, I have no advice to give, but wanted to let you know that I’ve been listening. And I think that the tone in the last post you made demonstrates that you’ve come a long way from the first time I read a thread about your marriage.

Ok, actually I have some advice. Don’t pay for her cell phone and clothes shopping. Food for the kids, yes, but not that other stuff.

24

Belrix -my best to you. One day at a time, buddy, one day at a time.
any way you could get custody? She doesn’t sound all that stable…?

25

I still think you ought to try for custody. Don’t put it in an adversarial manner, just be realistic. If she wants to go back to school, it will be much easier for her to do so if you have custody of the kids. You also won’t have to worry about them being hungry. I don’t have children but that would drive me insane.

If she’s still playing the money games, she seems to expect you to take her back and just forget everything that has happened. That is not realistic and it is not fair.

I hope this works out in the most positive and least painful manner for all of you.

26

It seems obvious to me that the answer to all of this will be if and when she gets a job paying a decent wage. An unhappy couple that stays together not for the kids, but because they can’t afford to separate, now that’s a special kind of hell. On top of an overwhelming amount of emotional stress because the marraige is suffering, is the added knowledge that at this moment, you don’t even have a choice! You HAVE to be together right now and that can make you feel trapped, angry, and/or confused about what you really want.

The focus at some point will need to shift from deciding if the marraige is over to preparing for the marraige to be over. She’s going to need a decent income, you’re going to need for her to have a decent income, and the kids are going to need for her to have a decent income. I know you’ve said that she has some kind of specialty skill and has the potential for a good job. If she needs a short amount of schooling for a certificate or if she has to move a couple of hours away to land a good job, please take my advice to support her efforts and encourage her as your own financial future may depend on hers.

27

Maybe print this up and post it somewhere that you’ll see it every day.

It’s funny how people in bad marriages think their kids don’t know. They know where mommy sleeps, and daddy sleeps, and when mommy doesn’t come home til really late, and when mommy chews daddy’s ass off, and when daddy thinks about leaving mommy. As much as you think your kids know, quadruple it, and they probably know even more. They might not know in words, but they are picking up every vibe in your house.

What are you waiting for? (Serious question, not giving you a hard time.)

28

How easy could it be to leave kids that may go hungry? I wish there were a way that the money could be tied up so that she couldn’t get to it, but it was there for the kids. Trusts etc are all very good, but money put away for college doesn’t help a kid who needs lunch or new underwear today.
And it sounds like the OP can’t trust her to spend $ responsibly–which is probably one reason he sticks around.

I think the OP should try for custody.

I have similiar money issues (the lack of, not the irresponsibility) and so I am here until I get my Master’s and a FT job. Then, we negotiate etc.
I keep making this personal, but I do so because I think it reflects somewhat the problems of the OP. It’s not so easy to just up and leave with kids and money issues and problems. IMO, he has set a course-which in and of itself is huge-and is making his way there. How much time it takes is up to him.

Walking out that door is like stepping into an abyss-I’m not saying it shouldn’t be done or won’t be done. But some ground rules need to be established, like we won’t use the kids as weapons against our spouse, won’t withhold visits etc–maybe a mediator would be good, if not a counsellor. Some arbitrary third party who can see both sides.

29

You know the most nerve-wracking thing a wife can say to a husband is, “We’ve got to talk.”

“Oh Shit”, you say to yourself and then signal your internal Sulu to raise the shields.

In a stunning reversal, I said that to my wife last night.

She has a job interview today. I asked her what that meant to her, where her mind was at.

Thankfully, I think we’re on the same page. It’s sad that that page is the dissolution of our marriage but at least we’re not at odds with each other. I told her that I still loved her, that I still cared about what happens to her but I don’t think I loved her in the same way that had years ago. I also told her that I have serious trust issues rigbt now. I dread seeing her on the computer because I’m now always suspicious she’s (virtually) running around on me.

She even fessed up to “Vince” last night although she’s saying she’s not interested in him but he hasn’t gotten that message yet.

I scared myself yesterday. I called a day-care place (a local franchise) and asked about rates for the kids. Long-story short, it’d be $2000 a month for all-day care for three kids, $1600 a month for all-day care for my 4-year old and after-school care for the older two. That changes the financial picture in a big way, making me think, as mentioned above, that I might not be able to afford a separation. In my planning, I put daycare in at $1200/month (100/week per kid).

My wife assures me that there’s private individuals near the school running daycares that will be a fraction of the above. I hope she’s right. She said that as she was growing up in her divorced family, her mother would hire a reliable teenager during the summers to care for her. Anybody have any experience with that?

As I said before, the family lawyer I spoke with said it’d be nearly impossible to get full custody of my kids. My wife isn’t a child abuser, alcoholic, or drug addict so full custody is nearly impossible. I don’t want to take the kids from her - she’s not a bad mother, just a bad spender. I’m hoping it’s a skill she can learn.

We’ve both committed to putting the kids first in this. My wife was the weapon of choice in her parents’ divorce. She doesn’t want that to happen with our kids. I’m all for that idea - I hope we can make it stick. Our counselor has suggested we keep the separation quiet from the kids for now - although my oldest strongly suspects. Kids, she says, need concrete plans and things are too much up in the air right now to give concrete reassurances.

My oldest told his grandparents, my parents, that his Mom & Dad were getting a divorce. I spoke with him privately and told him that Mom & Dad were having a lot of problems right now and that, no matter what happens, he and his siblings weren’t to blame and that we’d always love and care for them. I know I’m going to have to reinforce this a bunch but I hope some of it stuck.

30

I was one of those responsible teens. In fact, I also took care of two kids for two entire summers during college (the family then moved, but we’re still in close touch) – this was about 8 years ago. Check into hiring a college kid; you can start by placing calls and/or ads with sorority houses and other student organizations.

Word-of-mouth also works well. Start putting out feelers among your coworkers to see what their childcare arrangements are.

You could also investigate getting an au pair – there was a thread about this recently, I’ll see if I can find it.

31

Two things to keep in mind (I speak as a child of divorce): 1. when you disrespect the other parent, you shame the child. My mother spent years telling me that my Dad was an SOB-I look like a Mini-me of him. (and then, she went and remarried the SOB-so there ya go). and 2. best to enact the support and caring for the kids. IOW, live what you say. It does no good to any child to be told that Daddy or Mommy loves them very much, but then time is not spent with the kid, arrangements not made to ensure safety and well being etc.

Figure I’m preaching to the choir here, but I thought it needed saying.
Good for you for initiating a discussion with her. I have never used a commercial daycare service-my understanding of them is what you gain in reliability, you lose in cost. I have always used either a responsible teen (and there are many), or a SAHM or retired mom. All local, all much cheaper than daycare. Get references, get references, get references–and CALL and TALK to those references. There are guides to interviewing caregivers for kids out there-check the library or online for some.

So, you can’t get full custody-fine, but try for the most custody you can. It matters. Kids need Dads, present and involved. (sorry, soapbox again).

32

I never used an institutional daycare. I always contracted a SAHM who was interested in watching kids. Much cheaper.

33

This is a good sign if my experiece is any indication. My parents had a horrible divorce and my sister and I were often used as weapons. It didn’t stop either of us from getting divorced ourselves but both of us did have very mature, amicable divorces. I don’t have kids but she does.

34

Belrix, it sounds like you’re moving from the “what” to the “how.” That is most definitely a positive step forward for you.

All of my friends who have kids seem to be using SAHM babysitter types.

Are you thinking of joint custody? That sounds like it might be best for everyone.

35

Yup - joint custody. Sometimes I think that I’d like full custody - I worry for the kids when they’re not in my care. I don’t fear she’ll hurt them, just that they’ll be too much financial drain on her. She’s a loving mom and will do her best by them.

On the other hand, if I’m going to restart my life from near-scratch, then it’d be nice to have some time in which to do it. Joint custody would allow that.

The “how” questions weigh hard on me right now. It’s all the more difficult when I don’t have real numbers to play with with respect to her income and the cost of daycare. I’m a planner - I hate uncertainty - it makes me bonkers.

I’ve got this Excel spreadsheet all laid out so I can plan how much rent I can afford, how I can keep paying for her car, and all that. I just need some real numbers to plug in.

36

There are lots of parental Dopers here (a significant amount of whom are also divorced) who can help you figure out the nuts and bolts of raising kids in two houses, Belrix. Maybe that should be your next thread. :slight_smile:

One of the things I’m thinking of is that since you’re worried about your kids not having enough money for stuff with your wife, you can still make it your business to buy them durable things when they’re with you - clothes, school supplies, toys, etc., so you know they won’t go short on these things. I think if you really sit down with someone knowledgeable, you’ll find there are many ways to get skinny cats. People have been divorcing for a long time with fewer resources than you currently have.

37

Too late, I just wasted 15 minutes on these gems: Urinals and Mundane Superpowers. :slight_smile:

Nothing like spending a morning pondering these kinds of pressing questions.

38

Belrix, I still see quite a bit of uncertainty on both of your behalfs. An actual separation (one of you out of the house and living elsewhere) of 3 to 6 months will take the uncertainty away, plus you will get an actual taste of what divorce is like on a trial basis without the permanency, and also what joint custody (and costs) would entail. This will help clear up the uncertainty with respect to the absence of the other spouse will either make you a happier person or a miserable person. Have a marriage counselor lay out the ground rules for this separation and do your best to follow them. See each other once a week or every other week, alone (like a dinner date) and try to keep it as a date/courting setting without the sex and see if there is still an interest. In the meantime, don’t see anyone else yet…it will just complicate matters and not give you an honest chance to search your feelings towards her in her absence. The time and space between the two of you will definitely resolve any uncertainties that you may have, meaning you will have no regrets after you have made your decision on whether to stay together or divorce. Good luck…thoughts and prayers for you and your family.

39

Ooh, that’s very good advice - I guess there’s a reason they call it a trial separation sometimes. Time to shake things up and see what falls out. I think you’ve posted that you can’t afford to separate right now, Belrix, but you can still be working towards that, I think.

You know, it occurs to me that I’m sounding like sort of a cheerleader for you ending your marriage, Belrix, and I’m not usually keen on people throwing in the towel on relationships just because they’re hard, but in your case, your wife sounds pretty toxic for you. She may become an equal partner in helping you with the house, kids, and relationship at some point, but she isn’t now, and you can’t make her. Maybe a legal separation will shake her up enough to get her to start contributing to fixing the problems.