xtisme is correct. Witness the UFC fight between Royce Gracie and Dan Severn.
Gracie spent most of his time on his back, being “pinned” by most wrestling rules. He didn’t mind, since it didn’t hurt or exhaust him. Severn had no idea what to do, since all his training ended when he had pinned his opponent. So he wound up making a mistake, and Gracie applied sangaku-jime. Tap out.
The ultimate martial art is Kano jujitsu, or old-style judo when it focused on effective combat and not exclusively sport.
It’s true that in aikido, your opponent has to initiate an attack, but as regards sparing your attacker from harm, well, I guess that’s going to vary from Sensei to Sensei. In the dojo, where one’s partner has to take on the role of attacker, you do try to avoid causing injury, which is why the beginner first learns proper ukemi techniques. However, once you are further along, people (in my Dojo, at least) tend to put a lot more “oomph” into their throws and techniques, especially when they are working with someone they are comfortable with and who can take the heat. In real life, you have to do a move like you mean it, and that takes practice.
Many Aikido moves, when properly executed against a real attacker, are designed to incapacitate as swiftly as possible- we’re talking dislocations, broken limbs, and massive concussion/head trauma at the least. Also, Aikidoists are not above throwing in the occasional punch or jab when the opportunity arises.
But this could just be my Sensei’s particular style/philosophy. YMMV
Bizz (“Hashigo-Dan”) wire,
who quit after a separated shoulder, torn knee cartilage and several broken toes.
Well, I took Judo while I played soccer and a lot of my buddies in soccer took karate. I found Judo to be incredibly useful with soccer and I found soccer to be effective with karate. We would horse around a lot and I could hold my own if I didn’t get up close. Then I’d get the nailed by the karate enabled.
I figure my leg is longer than most people’s arms so I vote for kick boxing. I would add that I studied anatomy for awhile and found it useful in hand-to-hand. You’d be surprised what you can pick up from each discipline that is useful. I used to experiment in Judo until I broke some kid’s leg in 3 places during a competition (he healed and went on to be a gymnast). I would certainly urge caution. Ju Jitsu is an aggressive form of Judo and the only time I was exposed to it I was very impressed (scared). The few times I used Judo to defend myself it was from an attack from behind… I have to say, it looked impressive to grab someone in midair and body-slam them.
ok you called me. i really should’ve been clearer.
what i meant was when a wrestler gets on his back, he knows what to do, but what knows is to get off his back. personally i am very comfortable fighting on my back. in fact, if i get jumped by a group of people, i find fighting on my back to be most affective, because i can take out one person while everyone else thinks he’s winning, and i am exposed much less than if i was on top.
get a wrestler on his back, his first instinct is to get off his back. get a BJJ master on his back, his first instinct is to make sure his opponent is as close as possible (i.e. to close to strike effectively). if i get a wrestler on his back, he might do his best to turn over. if we are grappling and he turns his back to me, it’s all over. really. and i’m pretty much a novice.
i once fought a “black belt” in aikido (with no striking to the face, no closed-fist blows to the head, and no kicks to the front of the knees), and i wasn’t much impressed. i lost, but as i said i’m a novice, and he knew what to do once he got out of aikido situations. but my grappling instincts were pretty much a match for his style.
to actually add something, i have to say kung fu is the most beautiful style to watch. someone said that the “best” martial art depends on what you get into it for. if you get into it for the “arts” part, i definitely take kung fu. there just isn’t anything as pretty. and you certainly can’t spar against an imaginary partner in bjj.
The honest to god best ‘martial art’ is to simply fight to win. Doesn’t matter what ‘style’ you use, if its a real fight. I assumed we were talking about opposing styles in a sparring situation. No matter how hard you train, unless you train bare handed and bare footed full contact with no protection in street clothes its not the same thing. I do things when I spar that I wouldn’t dream of doing in a real fight. In real life, dirty fighting is what its all about…and THAT is the best martial art in a real situation.
Many of Kempo-Jitsu forms and techniques derive from Kano jujitsu also, Shodan. Of the styles I’ve studied, its the most realistic, as the idea is to fight from range (hands and feet) to graple (various throwing/hold down techniques, elbow strike techniques, knees, locks, etc) all the way to mat work (where most fights I’ve been in end up). Its not an ‘elegant’ style, full of beautiful flowing moves like Akido or some of the Korean styles…or the Southern Chinese Kung-Fu styles. Its almost brutal in its simplicity.
My former sensai was a mad man…he actually WOULD have us spar full contact in our street clothes on friday nights after the regular classes were dismissed (and after many of us had spent several hours teaching classes and sparring…joy). He was one of those old school from Okanawa bastards (makawara boards, heated sand, horse stance with a bamboo rod across your knees for an hour…the whole nine yards), about 60 years old and mean as a fucking snake. Just a little guy, you NEVER want to mess with him.
Like bizzwire, I’m officially ‘retired’ from the sparring part…I’m simply too old and too damaged to do it anymore, though I still teach occationally.
I’m pretty ignorant, so I have no suggestions. I was just wondering whether anyone knows how effective/good Kalaripayattu is.
I’ve seen practitioners go at it, and it’s pretty scary, especially with the weapons they use. Is it even possible to get within 5 feet of the person wielding that flexible sword??
Most Eastern martial arts now a days have degraded from actual martial arts to flashy sports.
There are so many rules and so much flashy moves that have martial merit that they have become complete sports.
Not that the body enhancing excersice they provide isn’t going to be helpful in fight…
I say go back in time to when people were actually effectively killing one another using truly useful martial arts. The ancient samurai techniques, and the medieval european martial arts.
These arts are flashy only in the fluidity and deadliness of their techniques, and it’s martial application and effectiveness has several hundred years of war history to speak for it.
Most Eastern martial arts now a days have degraded from actual martial arts to flashy sports.
There are so many rules and so much flashy moves that have no martial merit that they have become complete sports.
Not that the body enhancing excersice they provide isn’t going to be helpful in fight…
I say go back in time to when people were actually effectively killing one another using truly useful martial arts. The ancient samurai techniques, and the medieval european martial arts.
These arts are flashy only in the fluidity and deadliness of their techniques, and it’s martial application and effectiveness has several hundred years of war history to speak for it.
Which, fortunately, is less than a century ago. There’re still to be found students of masters who actually made their living fighting with spears and swords, guarding caravans and such. Time will only distance us further and further from these people.
I am unsure about the kalirayapit but I have trained quite a bit in Kali, from the Filipines, which is supposed to be a descendant. Kali is very effective as initial training is armed (sticks, small knives, and short swords) and the final part of the training is empty-handed.
Kali is quite an effective art and uses low kicks, along with both grappling/locking techniques and strikes. The empty-handed part of the art reminds me quite a bit of Jiu-Jutsu with the block-strike-lock-and break combinations.
IMO, any of the more practical styles will do you right. Karate, Krav-Maga - something that demands more in the way of power and speed (First Hit, Last Hit, right?). You want to be able to smash the living shit out of someone on a moment’s notice. You will not have time to pull off the “Spinning Dragon Whirlwind Kick”. And frankly, I’d be leery of getting a grapple on with some of the poeple you might have to fight with.
You do not want to get on the ground with a 250+ drunk man named Bubba with biceps the size of your thighs. If you can smash his nose in, crush his testicles, and drive his head into a brick wall a time or five, you’ve got a much better chance of walking away. Especially if he has a broken bottle in his hand.
Now, “best” depends largely on your own purpose, but for Self-Defense, that’s what I’d choose - and I did.
The problem is, most fights degenerate into exactly that…rolling on the ground with bubbah, and even if you have the best kick in the world, or the most crushing punch, they do you little good if the guy grabs you and takes you to the floor (which is pretty much the standard mid game tactic in most bar fights). Sometimes you get lucky and can cause enough pain and or damage that the other person backs down…if so, happy days. I’ve even managed to knock out a person or two, which is also quite auspicious. But normally, people are tougher than you would think…especially when they are very mad and or under the influence of various things. Women also factor in…if a woman is the focus of the dispute, you can almost guarentee that the fight will go several rounds, and pain alone most likely won’t make either back down…men are just stupid this way.
Also, sometimes you have no choice…you simply CAN’T get the room to manuver (ever been jumped in a public bathroom or other small space?). So, if you want to learn to defend yourself, you have to learn how to take on that 250 lbs bubbah when he’s drunk and you are both rolling around on the ground. Even if you are Bruce Lee.
As stated above in different ways, there is no best martial art, only good martial artists. I have had students who could jump 5 feet straight up and deliver a spinning heel kick that could break 3 boards. But put some pads on them and start sparring they couldnt do it. Jumps and spins and cool kicks and combos mean nothing if you dont have the instincs to use them. Some people are just not good fighters, no matter what they train in.
If you want to protect yourself the best “art” is just simply be in good physical shape. Someone in good shape, both cardio and musclar, has a better chance of surviving a fight then some fat outta shape person. If you cant fight at least your in good enough shape to run
Shaolin kung-fu ought to give you a good grounding in the basics of fighting. After several years, I left it to develop a style that was tailored to my strengths and weaknesses. I’ve found it extremely effective for me, but it translates poorly when asked to teach it to others. Even with a good background in grappling and striking forms of fighting, the person who will win is the one who wants it more. Full forms of Kung-fu, Karate and espescially TKD are flashy and for competition only. If you throw a spin kick at me I’m going to back up a step, catch your foot, and break your damn ankle. Any art that teaches you to leave your feet, or turn your back is doing you a disservice. If you want to deal with “Bubbah” then you’ll need to put him down hard, visciously, and FAST. So I’d say the ultimate martial art, is one of your own devising that allows you to maximise your strengths and minimize your weaknesses.
Haha, catch the foot of a person doing a full spinning kick? LOL, might as well say you are going to catch a baseball bat in mid swing with your bare hands. ROFL.
Do you even know how much force a full spinning kick has? The only thing breaking would be your hand and/or wrist.
It can be done. Not something I’d try myself. Personally, my favorite technique (almost never fails if the guy is actually stupid enough to try and kick to your head and doesn’t back off, i.e. drop the kick to protect himself) is simply to kick right up his leg…right into the crotch. Works like a charm, even if the guy is wearing protection. Its something that people who spar by ‘rules’ never expect (like a knee kick) because its usually forbidden.
A guy in one of my classes once actually had his scrotum ripped nearly off by such a kick (he was trying a spinning round house kick) and, though it was repaired, it was extremely excruciating to say the least. He learned though…never try and kick above the waist of any opponent that is not already pretty much disabled. Those flashy kicks to the head are great in show, or even if you are sparring with ‘rules’, or for an ending technique. Other than that, a nice kick to the belly, knee, or groin is just the ticket IMO.
But normally, people are tougher than you would think…especially when they are very mad and or under the influence of various things. Women also factor in…if a woman is the focus of the dispute, you can almost guarentee that the fight will go several rounds, and pain alone most likely won’t make either back down…men are just stupid this way.