Glad to see that we agree on George Best. Here’s my problem with your position:
(a) the game may be at a high altitude but most of the Mexican players either play closer to sea level or play in Europe themselves.
(b) The game really isn’t that important though as the US is virtually guaranteed to qualify. In the European groups there is geniune competition for places.
(c) National hatreds about in Europe so that’s nothing new. Moreover, oftentimes it is more intimidating to play in a small stadium with 30,000 screaming fans who are right on top of you than in a cavernous stadium with 70,000 fans kept at a distance via a race track, moat etc.
George Best wasn’t the best player at Man Utd - Charlton and Crerand were better. He wasn’t the best at Fulham - Mooore was better. He wasn’t even the best in the Northern Ireland team - Jennings was better.
He was the David Beckham of his time - a good player with great PR, but not a great player.
As much as I like Paddy Creand I have to disagree with you. To compare Best to Beckham is just wrong. Best could tackle (he was hard as #@(@) head the ball and, wait for it, dribble and beat a man. Beckham can do none of the above. Bobby Charlton doesn’t think he is better than George Best nor would Johnny Giles who was a class player who played against Best. Best was, arguably, the greatest player to play the game so to compare him to Beckham is just wrong.
Comparing various rivalries is a bit pointless. This one is probably a lot dfiferent than others in that the vitriol is almost all consuming on one side and almost non-existant on the other. I mean this in the context of a national obsession. American soccer fans are definatey feeling the rivalry, as are the players. But most of the US will hardly know there is a game happening, especially since the basketball tornament is on.
However, in Mexico the emotion for this game easily rivals anybody anywhere. What is funny is that it especially gets them that we have been beating them and we don’t care. That aong with the usual disdain for the US in Mexico for it’s “imperialism” etc. The one thing they had over us was, “You are richer more powerful, but we kick your asses in soccer.” And they don’t even have that anymore. It hurts and they don’t like it at all.
Off the top of my head here are ten british players that are better than Best (and played either with or after him)
Bobby Moore
Kenny Dalgleish
Pat Jennings
Gordon Banks
Peter Shilton
Jimmy Greaves
Jim Baxter
Danny Blanchflower
Dennis Law
Paul Gasgoigne
(and if we’re allowed to choose paddies (bear in mind he was eligible to play for ireland too) Liam Brady and Roy Keane are much better players)
I did try to think of a welsh one, but I couldn’t (having said that I would say that on his day Giggs is at least as good as Best - really; don’t believe the hype. There is a reason that Man Utd let him go when he was only 27 - and it isn’t all down to booze. He was replaceable.)
I’m not saying he wasn’t very good but the myth is at odds with the reality.
Also we never saw him in serious international competition (which is also true of Blanchflower) - so I suspect that a lot of the regard he is held in wouldn’t have continued if he were English. If you doubt this: - imagine that John Barnes had never pulled on an england top. Think what his reputation would be like now compared with where it actually is.
I have a book called Soccer Yearbook 2003-4: The COmplete Guide to the World Game. Depsite the word ‘Soccer’ it is a English publication that is pretty comprehensive.
Anyway they have their own list of 20 greatest players of all time:
Baresi, Franco
van Basten, Marco
Beckenbauer, Franz
Best, George
Cruyff, Johan
Dalglish, Kenny
Di Stefano, Alfredo
Eusebio
Garrincha
Maradona, Diego
Matthews, Stanley (?)
Meazza, Giuseppe
Moore, Bobby
Muller, Gerd
Pele
Platini, Michel
Puskas, Ferenc
Schmeichel, Peter
Yashin, Lev
Zidane, Zinedine
Hard to argue with that - apart from the fact that it doesn’t go back that far.
Matthews, Puskas, Garrincha and DiStafano are the only pre-TV players. There should also be a place for John Charles, Tom Finney, Nat Lofthouse etc (BTW my Dad reckoned the best player ever ever ever ever (etc) was John White - who’s now completely unknown as there is about 10 minutes of footage of him surviving).
Oh and George Best can get out of any top twenty list as well!
And finally - Schmeichel better than Banks Shilton or Jennings? - they’re having a laugh.!
I’d still rather breath in the air in Mexico city then get kicked in the groin by a Mexican.
SI had an article about this game this week. They said that the US asked Mexico to not schedule the game at Azteca and we’d play them in LA.
No way, Jose, said the Mexicans.
So, we made them play us in Columbus, OH.
Anyway, I’m not a big soccer fan, but based on recent results, it sounds like we have a stronger squad. I’m going to say we overcome the atmosphere, the chocolate brownies, and the kung-fu groin kicks, and pull out the victory.
Firstly, please do not refer to Irish people by the perjorative term “paddy”, “mick” or other wise. I do not want to appear PC but it’s insulting and there’s no need for it on these boards.
Secondly, I think you’re wrong about Best and a lot of others do as well. Giles played against Best and he considers him the greatest player he every played against. Matt Busby said the exact same thing. Each to his own but I would have Best on any World XI.
I’m going to step in as Moderator here, supporting Lochdale’s comment. Ethnic nicknames are generally pejorative, and we like to think that we’ve moved beyond racist name-calling.
There’s only ten spaces and he’s not that good. At spurs alone we’ve had Greaves who’s better. (and maybe even little defoe if he keeps up his improvement)
BTW “Paddy” isn’t rude in England - two cultures divided by a common language again. Apologies for any offensive - it was inadvertent.
Actually “Paddy” is considered to be quite rude to Irish people living in England. I know, I was one of them (though I now reside in Chicago). It was always a pejorative when used by an English person when referring to an Irish person. I am astonished that you do not know that. Let’s not make an issue of it just try not to use it. Deal?
The Ireland - Israel game was utter muck. It would almost turn you off football. The reason, however, the game is relevant because it actaully affects qualification. A team can’t just lose and know they are going through a la Mexico and the US.
Anyways, poor game and Israel deserved the draw. Puts us in serious jeopardy of missing out on Germany :smack: