Well, just FTR, I do watch Smackdown every Saturday night from 7 p.m. to 9 p.m. on WB. However, I don’t “watch” it, as in “sit there and focus totally on all the details, what they’re wearing, who’s a Heel and who’s not”. I sit here in the dining room and listen while I’m surfing the Internet. The Better Half and Bonzo are the ones sitting on the living room couch and “watching” it.
If I need info updates, I just ask Bonzo, who DOES know all this stuff.
Cold.
And they’re not racists, either. But the fans slavering in the stands, screaming encouragement while Whatsisname hovers over Dory in the corner (sorry, Bonzo’s at school so I can’t ask him which one it was), berating her, while she looks ready to cry–those fans are the ones I was talking about.
And yeah, I know it was just “storyline” but I thought it was sickening. Most of the storylines I can handle, but the “abuse of women” ones, or the “women are sluts” one where The Rock stands there and pumps his pelvis at the other guy’s lady over by the entrance ramp and she nods and grins and licks her lips and mouths, “yum yum”, well, I just find those objectionable. Stick to wrestling, guys.
DDG,
The Rock jokes about “The People’s Strudel”, and his love of “Pie”. His segments are meant to be humourous. Weather its funny or not is a matter for debate
It was Stone Cold Steve Austin, and I think you mean Torri, not Dory.
I have to agree with you on that point. I didn’t like that segment, nor did I like the last segment that was similar, involving Trish and Vince. Unnecessary and rather disgusting.
But the rest of it, re: dumb black wrestlers, I can’t agree with. Hell, the biggest, dumbest wrestler on the WWF is white. Hello Big Show.
I looked at him for over a year and it didn’t occur to me that he doesn’t “look white,” whatever that means. To me, he looks like a white guy with a tan. There’s nothing about his look, speech, manner or name which indicates his racial background is anything other than “white.” But whatever.
Then I guess I’m below average. As I said, he was already the People’s Champion by the time I started watching and there was nothing about his racial makeup mentioned in that entire time of which I’m aware other than Rikishi’s speech. I don’t care enough to do background checks or go back into the history from prior to my viewership.
Tengu
I quit watching regularly at about the time of the WCW/WWF merger, so there may have been some developments. the last I remember, Linda had come out of her Vince-induced drugged stupor. Vince was going to buy WCW but Shane bought it out from under him. I guess somewhere in there Stephanie bought ECW and formed an alliance with Shane? I wasn’t aware of any new alignment between Vince and Linda uniting against the kiddies.
But IMHO Vince is always a heel, even when he’s a face.
To drag this kicking and screaming back to the topic, what I’ve seen of Booker T doesn’t impress me. In fact I think he may have been part of the reason I stopped watching. I find his persona boring at best and obnoxious at worst. Add to that the fact that I think Steve Austin is quite possibly the dullest human being walking the face of the earth and there wasn’t much of an incentive for me to stay tuned.
As for the WWF’s racial politics, I don’t think the persona of one wrestler or another is the best marker. Rather, what are the roles of people of color overall? Asians might as well be non-existent. The only two I can think of off the top of my head are both comic relief (Taka and Funaki). Latinos do a little better, although Eddie Guerrero had been stuck in a stereotype for a long time (calling Chyna “mami” and the like). Black wrestlers who “look black” are often played as clowns and buffoons (Mark Henry specifically got trapped into a really offensive “sex addict” storyline). I watched wrestling back in the 80s and the racial politics didn’t seem much better then. Pushing one or even two wrestlers of color now is a good start but professional wrestling is still well behind the racial curve for both sports and entertainment.
What exactly about my post implies that I am unaware that they are following a script? I never even came close to saying this is not acting. If that were so, I would have implicated the WCW, not the WWF, because Shanomac is the WCW prez. Yes, I know that is part of the scripted story as well.
I do not believe it is intentionally racist. Pro wrestling since way back before the civil rights movement has been careful not to play the race card, at least with whites vs. blacks. There have always been too many black and especially hispanic fans. They are overtly sexist. They degrade other countries and races. Crazy arabs who spit fire. Evil Russians. Stupid Canadians.
The best explanation is that Booker T. needs mike work. That and getting rid of the Buckwheat hairdo.
He was in a feud with her at the time, and was pissed off that he couldn’t manage to beat her for the Intercontinental title. I’d hardly call what he did stalking, since most of it was standard mind games.
Going by the storylines, Stephanie is in a position of power in the WWF and hates Jericho. As such, she’s repeatedly kept him from achieving certain goals (such as winning the WWF title, for example), and Jericho is understandably not too happy with her at the moment. Again, this is a standard wrestling storyline, and it’s not like her character doesn’t have several people lined up to exact retribution on him for these little stunts.
They were heels, and that’s what heels do. And since they couldn’t cut the profanity-laced promos that got them so over in ECW, so apparently putting women through tables was
the idea that finally worked for them. And it got them heat, even if no one took it as seriously as you apparently did.
[QUOTE] Originally posted by SPOOFE
It doesn’t negate dick. It only shows that the audience loves seeing the good guys triumph over adversity.]
He was implying that the audience only likes seeing men beat up women, which is obviously bullshit. And presumably, the adversity part escaped him too…how else are you going to show women overcoming adversity without them getting beaten up by someone, exactly?
I have to wonder how long you’ve been watching if you consider an angle from two years ago being “the old days,” although the Crockett reference at least shows you’re not completely clueless. As for Jarrett, he was beaten up and eventually lost his last WWF match to Chyna, a woman. Not that I enjoyed watching that overhyped surgery-enhanced shemale beat him, but you have to admit it was a fitting end to the feud. And he got his comeuppance in the end, as every heel eventually does.
Oh, and since you asked, I’ve been watching wrestling for the last ten years and have a collection of tapes dating back about twenty years.
Wow, that sure was an in-depth explanation. Faarooq as far as I can tell is just a guy that likes beating up people, playing cards, and drinking beer, but he seems fairly intelligent for the most part. And K-Kwik was never really developed enough as a character for me to be able to tell either way, but he was certainly never portrayed as being dumb.
Further, please explain “Sexual Chocolate” Mark Henry, Viscera, D’Lo Brown, Godfather, D-Von Dudley… and if you want to push the envelope on what constitutes “black”, Haku and Rikishi (“Stink Face”? His finisher is called “Stink Face”?).
Mark Henry: Was being punished IRL for not trying hard enough to lose weight, plus the WWF was trying to unload his ridiculously large contract and he refused. So, he got saddled with having to date Mae Young until he was mercifully taken off TV.
D-Lo Brown: Um, what? Putting his character aside which was just a guy with a typical arrogant streak, there were several references from the announcers to him being a former CPA before becoming a wrestler (which was true, BTW.) He was also punished for breaking the neck of Darren Drozdov, which would explain the later Lo-Down gimmick and his eventual disappearance from TV.
Godfather: He was a pimp, yeah, but he wasn’t particularly dumb either. Admittedly his gimmick was a bit stereotypical, but it was an improvement over previous ones he’d had (Papa Shango, anyone?)
D-Von Dudley: I’d like to hear why you think his character is dumb, because I don’t see it. Hell, ask anyone and they’d say that Bubba Ray Dudley is the dumb one on the team.
Haku: Fine, he’s not all that smart. Then again, he’s been playing that character for years, so it’d seem silly to change it now.
Rikishi: No, his finisher is not the Stinkface. It’s just a move designed to humiliate his opponent, no different from X-Pac’s Bronco Buster, Scotty 2 Hotty’s Worm, or The Rock’s People’s Elbow (at least that was it’s original intention, anyway.) Since Rikishi is basically playing a sumo wrestler (hence the name) the move makes a weird sort of sense. His actual finisher is the Banzai Drop, however.
Easily, yes. So to treat this as a racist thing is pretty damn stupid, I’d say.
And DDP was feuding with the Undertaker when he began “stalking” Sara.
And the Undertaker is in a position of prestige and hates… well… just about everybody.
And DDP was a heel, and that (stalking Sara) is what heels do as well.
Congratulations, you have just proved my point for me. Award yourself a cookie.
DDG is a “she” (just want to keep everything straight). Further, she was implying that seeing women get picked on was one (well, rather, three) thing that the audience loves.
I’m a young’un. Two years ago seems a long time. Further, Jeff Jarrett’s anti-woman gimmick was - surprise! - two years ago. Or do you expect me to alter the time/space continuum in order to bulk up the perceived years that I’ve been watching?
(For the record, I’ve been watching wrestling for nigh on a decade, but I’ve only been following it closely for about three years now).
I’m not talking about his real-life persona. I don’t give a flying fandango about his real-life persona. His character is a mean, beer-chugging, don’t-take-no-guff-from-nobody, Acolyte Protection Agency-in’ badass. Not especially intelligent.
He was acrobatic enough, although it seemed like they were constantly trying to play him up as a black X-Pac (and failed miserably… but then, the X-Pac character isn’t exactly brilliance, either).
I’m well aware of Mark Henry’s real-life problems. Again, this has absolutely nothing to do with real life. Mark Henry’s character has always been a horny, big doofus. “Braineurysm”, anyone?
There’s that “real-life” thing again. D-Lo’s character was hyper and spastic, and he routinely got ambushed in the ring.
Again, we are in disagreement. His character was a big, zany party-animal. His in-ring tactics usually relied on him being able to throw his superior size around.
Granted, compared to Buh Buh Ray, anyone would seem like an Einstein. But the whole gimmick for the Dudley Boyz was that they were inbred hick brothers (in their first few weeks in the WWF, the announcers occasionally called them “twin brothers”, which prompted many a giggle).
It’s been called his “finisher” on many an occasion. Again, I’m well aware of why it is used, as anyone who thinks such moves are designed for “hurt” are smoking too much of the Road Dogg’s stash.
Wrong; Harlem Heat were multi-time tag champions of WCW, and took on all comers, including the Steiner Brothers, Road Warriors and Sting and Lex Luger. They rarely came up second.
About beating up of women: the WWF is supposed to be about equal opportunity. Every manager, valet and non-wrestler who gets in the way during the match (with the exception of Elizabeth Hewlett/Poffo, or Miss Elizabeth) is expected to one day take “a bump” for it by a frustrated wrestler. The women for the most part are trained to take the bumps. Or sometimes, the wrestler doing the damage goes out of his way to cushion her fall.
Some of the women wrestlers, such as Jacqueline, Lita and Chyna, made a career out of beating up men. Jacqeline is the real deal, having done it in three federations over eleven years. That’s why she is one of the trainers in the “Tough Enough” series.
Then there is the formula: beating up Stephanie McMahon=instant heat. To her credit, she took a hell of a lot of physical and mental punishment over a year and a half (while her brother undertook crazy stunts). It is very weird, her heel heat is so much her mere presence turned the face-going Alliance firmly into the side of heels.
Back to the Uncle Tomism issue. One negative thing about the new Booker T gimmick is that he is being asked to use the spineroonie the wrong way. In the WCW, it was his version of the kip-up manuever, used immediately after a very good move on his part or after he took a throw. Then it was a flashy but very effective signal that it was the beginning of the end of his opponent. It is his spot move, but it blended perfectly well with his style of fighting. Now, it is being treated as Scotty 2 Hotty’s Worm, or The Rock’s People’s Elbow. As Booker T is a rhythmic fighter, meaning that he tends to chain several moves at a time, his stopping to do an elaborate kneel-down and spineroonie is very off-putting. That elaboration is perfect for the Rock, who tends to do one spot move at a time.
Vince McMahon tends to like islanders. For pro wrestling purposes, his organization, they are perfect: they are stong and have that athletic look, look very exotic in a noble savage way, yet they are among the most gentle people on Earth. They also tend to be very fan-friendly, from Jimmy Snuka (allegedy he was too fan friendly in a hotel incident) to Yokozuna to Tonga Kid/Rikishi to The Rock. I saw Yokozuna on Regis and Kathie Lee a few years back promoting Summerslam, and while manager Jim Cornette was hyping about how much an ‘animal’ and ‘savage’ fighter he was, Yokozuna, bless his soul, took time to play tug of war with a bunch of kids. After that, he shook their hands. And he was supposed to be the number one heel in WWF at the time.
The reason you don’t see many Asians in the WWF/WCW is not many leave Asia by choice. Pro wrestling in Japan is probably equally as popular, if not more popular, than here in the US. The salaries are probably roughly equal. So why leave? An Asian wrestler can get everything in Japan that he can get here, and doesn’t have to travel haflway across the globe to get it. Same goes for Latin wrestlers. The Mexican leagues are hugely popular, though it’s unlikely the pay is anywhere near WWF/WCW levels.
Not really my point. What I’m saying is that for whatever reason there are few Asians and Latinos among the “superstars,” those that are featured are not pushed the way a Jericho or an Albert or even a Steven Richards is. I mean really, that “dubbing” bit for Taka and Funaki? And there are no other Asians in the WWF that I’ve seen in the time I’ve been watching. Are there no Asian-Americans interested in becoming wrestlers? Maybe not, if the way the current two are treated is a guide to how they’d be handled.
Same with Latinos. Eddie Guerrero got a push as part of the Radicals but then almost immediately got stuck into that low-rider shit with Chyna. And don’t even start me on Papi Chulo. Regardless of how much the Mexican leagues may pay, I can’t imagine there aren’t a few Latino wrestlers who’d like to make it big in the WWF without playing greasers.
Considering that wrestlings biggest fans in America, far and away, are 16-24 year old white males, I don’t really see it as that surprising actually. Latino and Asian americans aren’t huge wrestling fans, unlike whites. Asians and Latinos outside of the US have huge, popular, well paying leagues in their/near their home countries. Together, that spells not many Asian/Latino wrestlers in American leagues.
Um, Yoshihiro Tajiri? He has been the light-heavyweight and the US Champ in the past 3 or 4 months.
I read an interview with Guerrero and that character was his idea. He said that he has received some backlash becasue of it, but to counter that he said he was just portraying what he saw. You call it racist? He said (paraphrasing here) “Come to my home town and I can introduce you to hundreds of different people that are exactly like that.”
It’s also worth noting that he was the IC champ for a while (the 2nd highest belt in the WWF, at the time). And I’m sure he’ll get a nice little push as soon as his “Knee” (coughcough pill addiction coughcough) problem clears up. Speaking of which, has anyone heard of a date for his return?
Had not seen him on TV and I don’t look for wrestling news other than what’s broadcast. What’s his persona like?
All stereotypes have some basis. Whatever stereotype you want to name there’s probably someone who fits it. What I’m saying is, regardless of whose idea the greaser character was, when it’s the only or close to the only representation of a particular ethnic group that we see it IMHO needs to be questioned. The Latino representation in WWF was Guerrero the greaser, Papi Chulo the macho woman-beater who didn’t even speak English and Lita who started out as an abused woman (although she quickly dropped that when she hooked up with the Hardy Boys). Not really a balanced portrayal of Latinos, wouldn’t you agree? Same with Asians. Two out of the three are stereotypes.
Y’all don’t watch this show very often do ya? Anyway, Taijiri’s nickname is the Japanese Buzzsaw and he plays up the martial artist stuff in the ring. Outside the ring he was introduced as just some guy trying to get a job with the WWF. He got in good with the Commisioner and hung around the office as a second for a few weeks before finally getting a chance to get into the ring (and getting a huge pop from the fans at the same time).
Taijiri’s character doesn’t speak English, only Japanese. In spite of this the fans seem to love him, and he gets his character across with mannerisms (extrememly enthusiastic) and tone of voice (sort of a smart ass). He’s currently paired up with Torrie Wilson, one of the assorted WWF hot babes who left the Alliance (big evil faction) in order to date Taijiri. He hasn’t been on TV as often since the last PPV, maybe he forgot to shake hands with Droz or something, but before that was involved multiple times every night, usually one match and a bunch of backstage segments (and if the fans are lucky, a turn on commentary which was always fun.)
And if you come in late to Hamlet, you’re gonna wonder why he’s so pissed off at Claudius. I mean really, “The Rock” Rocky Maivia was first introduced to the fans as part of the Nation of Domination, ostensibly a black sepratist movement led by Farooq (you know that other guy who ‘cant talk’ :rolleyes: ). He was a heel in this role along with the rest of the NOD (the video game WWF Attitude by Acclaim for the old Super Nintendo was set in this era, hence the ‘Rocky Sucks’ chants), however he soon started to get over with his cock demeanor and ridiculous third person promos. Now if they went the easily racist way, they could have had Rocky ‘see the light’ and try to leave the group and rejoin white society, but instead they had him, as a popular tweener (or not face, not heel) try to usurp leadership of the group from Farooq. It worked and Farooq ended up being the guy to make peace with Whitey, thanks in no small part to his new best buddy Bradshaw. Eventually the rest of the NOD turned on the ever more popular Rock, but that was revealed to be part of a massive plan by Vincent K. “Mr.” McMahon to take the world title away from “Stone Cold” Steve Austin in one of the more unlikely schemes ever.
No, like I said, I haven’t watched regularly for several weeks/months.
So one out of three Asian characters isn’t comic relief and none of the three speak English. Great record.
I said this, not Zaphod.
WTF, why are you getting so pissed at me? I realize this isn’t GD, but shit, man. the fact of the matter is that I was not watching wrestling when the Rock was introduced so I don’t know anything about his history. Neither does anyone else who came to the show after the storyline played out, and do you deny that the Rock’s racial heritage has not been a factor in his storylines for over a year, other than Rikishi’s motive?
ahem. IRL, Taka and funaki actually dont speak very much english. Bradshaw actually gives them lessons. their english is good, and they have spoken in english in TV before. Their gimmick is actually very funny, and they are popular.
As for latino wrestlers, there are several of the Guerro family in the WWF, Esse Rios. there is also talk of more Latino talent to be brought inot the WWF, including Rey Mystereo jr.
33%, yeah it is pretty good. Kaientai, you see, are over. They don’t win matches a lot, but neither do the Hardyz. Because they are in that rare state of being able to keep their heat without getting the win all the time. TAKA and Funaki are both, from all reports, happy with their role in the company. They have both routinely signed extensions (for, I might add, a lot more than most championship wrestlers in Japan get) and maintain a good relationship with the fans and the guys backstage. Some people, horror upon horrors, like being funny. Nobody complains about Kurt Angle being misused as a clueless idiot and jobbed out to everyone short of the Brooklyn Brawler prior to his push following Wrestlemania XVII.
Conversely, people who can speak english have a pretty mixed track record. Kronik - Demoted. Tazz - Commentator and comic relief pseudo heel. Kane - Stuck under a red mask with a gimic from the 1980’s (again, over, but who am I to judge). Al Snow - Host of a third rate show despite being one of the best all round wrestlers in the company. Dean Malenko - Semi-Retired, again, despite his wrestling skill. Perry Saturn - (Checking to make sure this is the pit) Fucking a mop. Raven - Jobber to the Stars 2001. Mike Awesome - Who? Is he under contract? William Regal - Commisioner gimic = death (see Miller, Ernest or Foley, Mick) and feuding with X-Pac to boot. X-Pac - Hated by smart and mark alike. Justin Credible - Just Intolerable. Test - Gets a halfway push every few months, never gets over, never makes money. Steve Blackman - Tajiri-Ethnicity = No Heat. Crash Holly - TAKA-Ethnicity = Jobbing to Spike Dudley. Spike Dudley - They’re dressing the man like “The Little Show”, come on people. Billy Gunn - The Test of 1996.
sigh First off, I’m not pissed at you. I just think it’s a little comical that someone who admitedaly doesn’t watch the show much and doesn’t know much about the company’s history is making sweeping judgements about the role of minorities in the WWF. It’s just the way I write, what can I say.
I’m not denying it, but I would imagine that in a properly racially sensitive company the Rock’s racial heritage should be used in storylines about as often as Triple H’s or Austin’s. Are you saying that they should be playing up the Rock as “The Black People’s Champ”? I mean the guy is half samoan, so freakin’ what. I’m proud of the way he’s portrayed as just a wrestler, not a token. I guess that being the most popular wrestler on the face of the earth (RVD is, of course, from Neptune) isn’t a good enough for you?
HA!