The Black Panthers??!! Are you kidding me??

[RexDart]

Now, this is not solely a rant about events on another message board, though the event sparking my ire is of that origin.

A guy on the University of Missouri sports fan board recently altered his sig file. He changed it to include A) a picture from the Million Man March, B) the Black Panthers emblem, and C) a quote about the black “revolution” from some member of the group. Now I have no problem with anyone identifying themselves with the march, I support all peaceful demonstrations and assemblies. But for the rest…

Why would anybody want to identify themselves with the Black Panthers?? We’re talking about a group which, to my knowledge, contained numerous convicted felons and murderers. A group that was essentially a terrorist organization. If I were black, I’d think identifying with the Panthers would be like a white man identifying with the Nazis. Now I’m sure there were a few people who entered the Nazi party because they believed in statism and fascism, and not for the Jew-killing. But nobody would now proudly claim allegiance to the Nazi party and include a quote from Hitler in their sig file (excepting those fellas over on the SF board.)

After showing his support on the off-topic board for the Panthers, he then accused his critics of being racists. Excuse me, who is the admitted racial supremacist here??

These guys were not just misguided idealists. Even ultra-radical John Lennon grew disgusted with them after he learned the way they operate.

Am I rightfully angry at people endorsing hatred of the “white” race (which would include me), or am I missing something?

[tomndebb]

A group that was essentially a terrorist organization.

Well, the Panthers were one group that adhered pretty closely to a classically fascist philosophy of government, but do you have examples of terrorist acts that they committed?

They never made my list of people whose goals I wanted to see succeed, but they were also pretty well destroyed by a number of police attacks that made a mockery of the notion of justice.

Obviously, someone who is pushing their name over twenty years after their own leadership disavowed their objectives and policies is not too closely tied to reality, so why worry about it?

[EasyPhil]

All you wanted to know about the Black Panther Party but were afraid to ask

[EasyPhil]

*Originally posted by tomndebb *
**Obviously, someone who is pushing their name over twenty years after their own leadership disavowed their objectives and policies is not too closely tied to reality, so why worry about it? **

Founding Chairman, Bobby Seale’s Home Page

[RexDart]

Thanks for the link, EasyPhil. Hmmm, looking at their “ten points”, it appears they’ve tried to become idealists now. They sound like communists with their anti-capitalist rhetoric and reference to the government’s “obligation” to provide “full employment” for “oppressed” communities, and free health care, and “community” control of “modern technology.” And it still sounds a little segregationist by identifying communities with race. Nice to see they’re doing some community service and aiding with medical research, though.

Still, there’s the legacy of violence hanging over them, such that I can’t understand why someone would continue to embrace that specific name and label. I’m not great at finding links, but I had thought it common knowledge that the Black Panthers had committed numerous violent acts, robberies, the sort of thing we would now consider “domestic terrorism” on a scale with the actions of environmental terrorists and pro-life activists bombing PP clinics.

[Amok]

*Originally posted by RexDart *
Thanks for the link, EasyPhil. Hmmm, looking at their “ten points”, it appears they’ve tried to become idealists now.

Not exactly. There is no Black Panther Party now (there is a group that calls themselves the “New Black Panthers”, but they have no real connection to the original group and are just trading on the name). That site is about the historical Black Panther Party, and the Ten Points Program was issued in 1966. From the site:

The Black Panther Party was the manifestation of the vision of Huey P. Newton, the seventh son of a Louisiana family transplanted to Oakland, California. In October of 1966, in the wake of the assassination of black leader Malcolm X and on the heels of the massive black, urban uprising in Watts, California and at the height of the civil rights movement led by Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., Newton gathered a few of his longtime friends, including Bobby Seale and David Hilliard, and developed a skeletal outline for this organization. It was named, originally, the Black Panther Party for Self Defense… Immediately, the leadership of the embryonic Party outlined a Ten Point Platform and Program (see the end of this article for full text). This Platform & Program articulated the fundamental wants and needs, and called for a redress of the long_standing grievances, of the black masses in America, still alienated from society and oppressed despite the abolition of slavery at the end of the Civil War. Moreover, this Platform & Program was a manifesto that demanded the express needs be met and oppression of blacks be ended immediately, a demand for the right to self defense, by a revolutionary ideology and by the commitment of the membership of the Black Panther Party to promote its agenda for fundamental change in America.

[tomndebb]

had thought it common knowledge that the Black Panthers had committed numerous violent acts, robberies, the sort of thing we would now consider “domestic terrorism”

“Common knowledge,” however, is often at odds with facts. The Panthers were not nice people. They had a propensity for violence and they agitated for violent “reform” (or revolution) within the U.S. However, as Seale notes on his web page, the government was only able to secure convictions against the Panthers in 5% of all the charges that were brought. In addition, nearly all the crimes with which they were charged (and a number of crimes for which they were not charged, but of which they are the strongest suspects), were murders or beatings of people within their own organization whom they suspected of “selling out.”

I cannot remember a single robbery or terrorist act for which they were charged. (Which is not to say there were none, but I have fairly clear memories of charges against them for killing their own.) They were better with their rhetoric than their revolution–and it brought the police down on them in several lethal raids.

[EasyPhil]

*Originally posted by RexDart *
Thanks for the link, EasyPhil. Hmmm, looking at their “ten points”, it appears they’ve tried to become idealists now. They sound like communists with their anti-capitalist rhetoric and reference to the government’s “obligation” to provide “full employment” for “oppressed” communities, and free health care, and “community” control of “modern technology.” And it still sounds a little segregationist by identifying communities with race. Nice to see they’re doing some community service and aiding with medical research, though.

That was the original mandate of the Black Panther Party, you clearly don’t know anything about the organization other than propaganda you have read. I provided you with links to the sites so that you can get some additional information, ultimately you’ll have to do your own work to find out what was really going on.

**
Still, there’s the legacy of violence hanging over them, such that I can’t understand why someone would continue to embrace that specific name and label. I’m not great at finding links, but I had thought it common knowledge that the Black Panthers had committed numerous violent acts, robberies, the sort of thing we would now consider “domestic terrorism” on a scale with the actions of environmental terrorists and pro-life activists bombing PP clinics. **

Provide some cites or other evidence of the claims you’re making.

[EasyPhil]

*Originally posted by tomndebb *
**I cannot remember a single robbery or terrorist act for which they were charged. (Which is not to say there were none, but I have fairly clear memories of charges against them for killing their own.) They were better with their rhetoric than their revolution–and it brought the police down on them in several lethal raids. **

One has to look at the history of the Black Panther Party in the context of the FBI’s Counter Intelligence Program - Cointelpro. It’s a known fact that the FBI planted agent provocateurs in the organization to foment internal struggle as a means of destroying the organization along with other methods including propaganda.

[zigaretten]

*Originally posted by EasyPhil *
That was the original mandate of the Black Panther Party, you clearly don’t know anything about the organization other than propaganda you have read.

Actually, your cite is not the original program, it is an updated version. Here are the original ten points. Note, for instance, the original Point 6:

6. We want all black men to be exempt from military service.

We believe that Black people should not be forced to fight in the military service to defend a racist government that does not protect us. We will not fight and kill other people of color in the world who, like black people, are being victimized by the white racist government of America. We will protect ourselves from the force and violence of the racist police and the racist military, by whatever means necessary.

This doesn’t appear at all at your site. There are other differences as well.

[zigaretten]

Here is a good summary of important events in the history of the Black Panthers with a minimum of editorial comment.

[milroyj]

Ok, I’ve only read Zigaretten’s cite up to Nov '68, and already I’ve seen numerous weapons violations, murdering an Oakland police officer, and hijacking an airplane to Cuba. Sounds like domestic terrorism to me.

[Amok]

Interesting point on the Ten Points Program, zigaretten. The Black Panthers site claims what they present is the original Program, but the Huey P. Newton Foundation (which maintains the site) may have modified it, for whatever reason.

[milroyj]

Don’t worry kids, it gets even better. :rolleyes:

Reading further, we see rape, flight to avoid criminal prosecution, assault with intent to commit murder, more murders, conspiracy to riot, kidnapping, killing a prison guard, ties to (presumably) Palestinian terrorist organization Al-Fatah, taking a judge and others hostage, consorting with the enemy in Hanoi (Jane Fonda anyone?), and as recently as 2000, killing an Atlanta sheriff’s officer.

So, whether or not you think their activities constitute “terrorism”, the Black Panthers were not nice people. As the OP stated, “felons and murderers” is more accurate. And to dismiss the whole situation as "someone who is pushing their name over twenty years after their own leadership disavowed their objectives and policies " is silly, since 2000 was only 3 years ago.

[tomndebb]

I’ve seen numerous weapons violations, murdering an Oakland police officer, and hijacking an airplane to Cuba. Sounds like domestic terrorism to me.

The hijacking has never been associated with the Panthers except that an individual Panther was the perpetrator. Not one of the shootings was an attack on the police (as in, a planned attempt to kill police, as opposed to a violent reaction to police action–sometimes in defense against police assaults on the Panthers). There is no incident mentioned in which Panthers threatened violence in order to attain their goals.

I am not claiming that the Panthers were poor innocents pushed atround by the system, but nothing reported about the group on that site matches the definition of a terrorist (as expounded by the U.S. government). Only the plane hijacking comes close, and it appears to be an action unconnected to the group.

If we use the word “terrorist” to identify any armed group committing extra-legal actions, then we need to identify the DEA as terrorist.

Again, I am not claiming that the Panthers were non-violent or that they were innocent of any crimes. However, the use of the word terrorist is simply hype that is not supported by the definition of terrorism.

[tomndebb]

Jamil Abdullah Al-Amin (H. Rap Brown) has not been a Panther for a long time. Whatever violence he has committed recently cannot reasonably be attached to the Panthers.

As the OP stated, “felons and murderers” is more accurate.

True. Not terrorists.

[Henry_B]

It would maybe best to read Elridge Cleaver: “Soul on ice” and Angela Davis’ book, “Autobiography” or something like that.

There is, If I dont remember wrong also some interview in Playboy.
I do not remember if it was Cleaver or who.
Anyhow Playboy had also an interview with Malcolm X. The guy who interviewed him, wrote later “Roots”.

Unfortunately my whole small library burned down in Finland in August 2000 and I have here in Russia only a few books of that time and they are mostly in Swedish and Finnish.

Anyhow, the guys begun to read law in the jail, formed a party etc.
The party acted legally; never had loaded rifles in the car, just rifles. When the ‘pigs’ stopped the ‘nigger’-car with guns, they just stepped out and begun to load their rifles with ammo.
At the same time one of them annonced the police according to which law, which paragraph etc. they were acting.

They also followed police-cars in Harlem an such areas, looking that the police will not harm their people.

If I remember right, narcotics was totally forbidden and everyone had to know the 10 points by heart, in order to be a party member. They also had quite tight rules about the need to respect women.
In reality their program could have woked much more response, it was not a stupid one, much better than many other political programs in any country.

The Maoist tag, they got when they bought from China Town “Mao’s Little Red” for half a dollar and sold them for three in anti-war (Vietnam) demonstrations. They had nothing to do with Maoism, they just made money through the fat guy.

I write all this from my own memory, and have not been to USA myself, but I learned a lot of English reading about the Afro-American history.

Later I have been a teacher here in Russian jails, and I just want to say, that nobody help these people, if they do not help themselves first.
I think there is something about it even in the Bible.

FBI was just going high on these Black Panthers, so You can read a lot of ‘official’ truths as well.
In any country, if the minority begins to really regroup itself, not forbiddening the majority to join, the establishement gets pissed. I have some expierence of it here in Europe, and the authorities has a problem when the majority members begin to defend a minority.

But anyhow, they where pimps, like Malcholm X, drug dealers, robbers etc., but they climed up to a level, if You count the gap they had to climb, that not many of us have done.

To follow the “ethical law” was a main point, and I have to say that a few persons in this world is really preaching the “ethical law of man”. (They never used the words ‘ethical law’, it is something I use myself when I speak to people.)

I am originally a Finn, but have traveled a little bit in Europe and I am now working in Russia. (Just so nobody begins to write some remarks…)

Please do not believe that any of us is totally clean, You just need to know that the administration is speaking shit in any country, any system etc.
They are just like Fox-news with a tie.
In any country.

[vanilla]

The Panthers get a bad Rap.
(pun on H., Rapp Brown)

They were not a terrorist organization, they gave free lunches to poor black children.
The government hated them and murdered some of them (Fred Hamptom and Fred Clark) in cold blood[while they were sleeping the police shot them in the back 99 times].

I don’t think the New Party (which has an office in East Cleveland now) is too similar, but still persecuted by the police.

[RexDart]

In all honesty, I think EasyPhil’s link, while providing some information on the “official” party line so to speak, is obvious of no reliable value in assessing the party’s behaviour. The party’s official site, and a site maintained by their founder? Not exactly the height of impartiality.

Looking at that chronology site, it certainly appears the Panthers were thugs. Also, the numerous weapons violations and attitude that they know better than the police sound very similiar to modern rural militia groups, who are generally considered violent and dangerous extremists. I think I’ll consider anyone who thinks fondly of the Panthers about as looney and wacko as someone who supports the Montana Militia.

And are we really going to just ignore the blatant racism of the Black Panthers in our evaluation of them?

[tomndebb]

The “New Black Panther Party” is composed of a bunch of loud-mouthed, attention-grabbing, angry people with a dash of racism. Some of their anger is justified, but their vitriol (and lack of a coherent plan to aid blacks in the inner cities) is simply counter-productive.