Enjoy!
So please explain how you aren’t judging women based on race…
We’re through the looking glass here, people.
BTW, thanatic, everything you wrote here is wrong. Some if it is so off base as to be not even wrong, it’s just odd. And the punctuation is awful but I’ll let that slide. You’ve posted a content free thread, and you’re being called on it. It has nothing to do with thinking outside the box.
I am willing to entertain odd claims of “cosmologies” as long as they don’t hurt anyone, but this is The Straight Dope and flat out errors of fact can’t be allowed to sit uncontested.
The Khazars were a real people living near the Black Sea.
Around the ninth century, they, (or the aristocracy among them) did convert en masse to Judaism. You can find this information in such “secret” texts as the Encyclopedia Hebraica or Paul Johnson’s bestselling work, A History of the Jews. (In other words, the history of the Khazars has never been kept a secret from anyone who wanted to look them up.)
Shortly after WWII, a few rabid anti-semites (probably inspired by a need to disassociate modern Jews from the ancient Israelites as the new nation of Israel was being formed), began promoting the idea that the “real” Jews were actually descendants of a Turkic tribe who converted to Judaism. Quite a few of these kooks got their views into print. (For a while, there was even an entire website devoted to republishing their nonsense.) Unfortunately, in the 1970s, Arthur Koestler, thinking that if he could prove the Khazar origin claim true he could put to rest all the silly “race” claims about the Jews, published The Thirteenth Tribe in which he argued that the Jews of Eastern Europe were actually the descendants of the Khazars. The book was a popular success and a critical failure, (because it was filled with lots of conjectures but few facts–and those facts did not support his theory).
Between Koestler’s book and the anti-semite ravings of Benjamin Freedman and others, the idea of the Khazars being the origins of the Ashkenazi Jews, (while pretending that the Sephardic and Mizrahi Jews did not even exist), has made it into the beliefs of a number of people.
Unfortunately for the “Jews as Khazars” gang, as DNA testing became more available and more widespread, people began actually testing the origins of the various Jewish groups. The result: the Ashkenazi Jews have been demonstrated to be more closely related to Sephardic and Mizrahi Jews than they are to other ethnic groups. There is a bit of mixing with more “local” populations, (which would be expected as traders and merchants moved into other lands and inter-married within the first few generations). In other words, the ancient tradition that the Jews of Eastern Europe were actually migrants from the Germanic regions of Central Europe, having migrated there from the Mediterranean basin, turns out to be true and claims that Ashkenazi Jews are “really” Khazars is nonsense.
As for the “blacks are the real Jews” theme of various websites, there is utterly no evidence to support this and DNA tests demonstrate that there is nothing to it.
With this background, it is clear that any attempt to call a Jew a “liar” for simply identifying his or her religion is nothing but more anti-semitic bullshit.
I do not accuse you of being a liar. I suspect that you have simply been misled. However, now that you have the accurate information, you can refrain from embarrassing yourself with claims that will bring ridicule down on you.
Any philosophy which talks about “fake Jews” (or fake anything in terms of race, religion, ethnicity, or the like) sounds like a supremacist philosophy.
I think supremacist philosophies are responsible for a huge portion of the crimes against humanity through history, including slavery and the Holocaust (among many, many more).
Hopefully you don’t ascribe to a supremacist philosophy, and hopefully you have no desire to be a supremacist of any kind.
Care to name two or three things that your thinking ‘outside the box’ has done to advance human progress?
then what about the black hebrew israelites that claim these types of things then
look, maybe i presented my self wrong…and i apologize for that
what im really trying to ask is, and just give me a short answer why
maybe i have been misled by fools, and its not something i want to be proud of
i just dont understand why we can’t substitute african cosmology and astrology for relativiy and quantun mechanics
i dont understand why me saying the black woman is god is inaccurate
i apologize if i offended anybody
Not sure what you are trying to say here. Are you saying that they aren’t, because from your link:
It seems like you are jumping all over the place. Maybe it’s just me, but I’m not really seeing a coherent train of thought throughout this thread.
your right…i need to sleep it off, i dont know what my thinking process is right now, its just…i just , don’t know
The science doesn’t support it.
It’s pretty simple to me – saying that an entire group of people who claim to be Jewish (or Christian or Muslim or any other religion/ethnicity/etc.) are just “fake Jews” (or fake Christians, etc.), is a supremacist belief and assertion.
I’m sure that most Black Hebrew Israelites are fine people, but that doesn’t make it right to say that others (or for others to call them) “fake Jews”.
good point…your right, i dont know what i was thinking
Relativity and quantum mechanics have been rigorously studied and have predictive power – we can use the principles of these theories to make predictions for various phenomena, test these predictions, and when this has happened these theories have been supported.
Many people have used astrology to make predictions, and generally most of these predictions have failed.
I’m not an expert on African cosmology, but considering the immense diversity of the African continent and the nigh-countless different groups of people who live and have lived in Africa, there must be thousands of different African cosmologies, if not more.
To many of us it’s as ludicrous and nonsensical as saying “horses are Zeus” or “toast is the Cosmos”. Black women are great, as are white women, Asian women, black men, white men, Arab men and women, white men, and every other pairing of ethnicities and genders.
But if you’re asserting that any of these groups are superior or inferior, in inherent morality, natural intellectual ability, objective beauty, etc., to any other, then in my view you are asserting a supremacist philosophy.
but isn’t there an exception with claiming black superority
its a different context, as you all know
europeans have been the dominant power and force
africans/blacks have been disenfranchized… so “black power” doesn’t have the same negative connotations as “white power”
so saying “black supremacy” is not as bad as “white supremacy”
Does that cosmology include the math to examine distant galaxies? Does it include mathematical principles that would allow us to develop and use nuclear power or to plot the path to send ships to explore the moon, Mars, the sun, or distant planets?
Substituting African cosmologies, (I presume there are more than one), for Greek based philosophy or Hebrew or Arabic based theologies might be quite possible.
Substituting a cosmology for actual mathematics and science when the cosmologies do not permit one to study the physical world in functional ways will simply fail on the grounds that mathematics and science provide more useful answers.
“not as bad” doesn’t make it okay. Black supremacism is still wrong, like all supremacism.
Bad is a value judgement, I’m not sure how to evaluate it in this context.
Wrong is an observation, and claims of black and white supremacy are equally wrong.
Agreed. The slogan, in its time (and today) refers more to achieving equality than to achieving superiority.
Here, though, you lose me again. Equality is good. Supremacy sucks. I do not want to be a master or a slave, only an equal partner. I’ll fight to change the system that keeps blacks down…but I’m damned if I’ll put myself down as part of the process! (I actually approve of “affirmative action” programs, which some see as putting whites at a disadvantage. I don’t agree with that assessment, and I believe it is vital to break up the existing unbalanced entitlement system, such as the “legacy” system of college admissions.)
Seriously, isn’t “equality” a good enough goal?
We wuz scientitz and physicitiz and shit /thread/.