You’ve provided no proof that this is the case. But at any rate, I assume you don’t have an answer to my question…and you don’t see the conflict in your own statements.
How is it that wages are supposed to always go up? Assuming that is even possible how do you keep jobs here in that event?
I already responded to the OP…I was responding to your statement. If you wish to just make bald statements by fiat, well and good. Can you prove that A) Wages are in fact ‘stagnant’? B) What exactly does ‘stagnant’ mean to you…and for how long have they been ‘stagnant’? Over the entire work force or in certain categories of labor? C) Even if the economy is ‘stagnant’ can you prove that this would have the impact on the economy you are projecting? Can you show a trend of stagnation of wages that couples with the current recession? Has such stagnations of wages coupled with past recessions? Say, with the last recession? Is this a short term ‘problem’ or is it long term? What proofs do you provide for that?
Oh, so Ben & Jerry’s Homemade Holdings, Inc. is one of the ‘good’ corporation? Sorry. I wasn’t sure how we were making the distiction. What about their parent corporation, Unilever?
Why are they so much more noble or altruistic than any other corporation, just because the CEOs market themselves as a couple of old ex-hippies?
His ‘opinion’ is not credible because a) he is not an expert on all things related to business, economics and government just because he ran a successful ice cream company and b) all he is advising is simply taking money from one pile and throwing it into a couple of other piles.
There is a difference between recognizing a problem and determining the correct solution. Yes we need to improve education and health care in this country. Yes it would be nice to feed the poor and whatnot. But if the soultion was to simply throw a billion dollars at it, we would have done it by now.
Along with the export of manufacturing jobs, the simple fact is that investment is going to China-which is why the US auto industry is floundering, trying to compete with obsolete plants.
Just how long the lopsided trade with China can continue is anyone’s guess-if the Chinese decide to dump the dollar, we will see some real problems.
But noboy in Washing cares-the rich men’s club (the Senate) would rather investigate the Patriot’s stealing plays from other teams.
I proviede a detailed cite in post #37. If you bothered to read for comprehension, all your questions would be answered. However, since you have not, let me lead you by the hand:
From my cite:
‘Stagnant wages’ to me means flat or falling wages.
From my cite:
If you find it necessary for me to teach you Econ 101, I am sure I can recommend a text book. Unless you are prepared to argue that consumers can continue to spend at a constant or growing rate, while prices are rising and their wages are flat or falling?
So you are conceding we are, in fact, in a recession? I am not going to insist that it is and have the discussion derailed. But the current downturn? Hell, wages haven’t rebounded since the last downturn in 2000. From my cite:
From my cite:
That I don’t know. But that is really irrelevant for the folks at the bottom who are too busy bearing the brunt of this downturn to worry about the next recovery. Sooner or later it will affect the investor class, and they will finally say, “What happened?”.
Since Fear Itself didn’t answer this, I will. Wages go up with productivity growth. Here is the latest BLS report on productivity growth.
Manufacturing is even better - 4.6% annual increase in durable goods manufacturing. This fairly decent level of productivity growth (and lower in the page you can find data back to 1998) should be reflected in higher wages. Instead it has been reflected in higher profits.
Since I never said deregulation was the only cause, I have no problems. You can argue with my cite all you want about the primary cause. Insurance with regulation would likely not cause a problem - FDIC didn’t lead to any in the decades it was in place. We don’t know if deregulation without insurance would lead to a problem also, but I suspect it would. It’s not like the money these guys was losing was their own.
If the recession is still going on, there will of course not be a balanced budget. Budgets should be in deficit during times stimulus was needed, and in surplus in good economic times. Bush managed to increase the deficit in good economic times. I think that a combination of reduced spending on Iraq and moving the tax cuts to people who will stimulate consumption will do it - but it will take a few years. It’s much easier to go immediately from surplus to deficit than the other way - even a Bush can do it.
He is not my chosen expert. He is a thinking person who has made a youtube with Oreo cookies that clearly demonstrated the imbalances of spending in America. He is however a successful business man. That makes him credible to other people. I like his presentation. Plus he demonstrates the problems well. Isn’t that enough. He is not my guru. I like the movie. But, I am offended when he is referred to as merely an icecream man. That is not fair criticism. He is an accomplished business man . Apparently a successful executive and developer of products.
Offshoring was an idea that seemed reasonable when it started. However I became alarmed when the negotiators ignored the ground rules that were used when it was sold. There were supposed to be regulations about wages and environmental protection. remember Perot talking about the giant sucking sound of American jobs with “free trade”.
let businessmen negotiate without workers and unions being involved ,this is what you get. A sweetheart deal that cuts wages, raises profits and eliminates environmental and worker protections. The wages in Mexico were supposed to go up. The cost of production was supposed to include air and water pollution requirements. The difference was not supposed to be this big,
I read a little while ago that India is alarmed because they are losing jobs to Korea and China. I feel sorry for them.
Or those freeloaders stealing school lunch from the government. :rolleyes: Link
The Southern Education Foundation’s recently published report serves as a valid economic indicator. In 2006, 46% of public school children received free or reduced lunch. There are fourteen states with half or more students receiving free or reduced lunch, 54% of students in the South. The poor are becoming the majority. How can the United States expect to be competitive in the future when the majority of its children are poor? It is counterintuitive to believe that under funding social programs, including a strong public education, saves money, reduces dependence, increases ingenuity, and ultimately helps the economy. The newly bankrupt, undereducated poor can’t carry an economy that depends on consumer spending and innovation. It isn’t a matter of handouts to the poor; it’s truly a matter of the long term economic health of the nation. Link
Naomi Klein asserts that globalization is the result of an intellectual movement based on a grossly misguided and self serving ideology: neoliberalism. The free, unregulated global market and the privatization of public resources have led to the astronomical wealth of a few at the expense of the many. The control of concentrated wealth has resulted in a merging of corporate and political elites who work to benefit each other. This is corporatism, part of the neoconservative power structure. Increasing and startling inequality in the U.S., also seen in China and Russia, supports Klein and other critics of neoliberal/freemarket/neoconservative philosophy. Ultimately, this is the fundamental reason for the U.S. economic decline. The staggering defense spending, slashed social spending, and massive debt are characteristic of neoconservative policies. I am not sure how much further to the right the U.S. can go without militarism giving way to fascism or bankruptcy.
I have read for comprehension. What I asked for is a cite that shows that they were flat or falling, instead of increasing, as your cites show them to have done.
You and your cite claimed that they were flat or falling. All of the figures presented, for all groups, show that they increased faster than inflation.
Non-wage benefits like health care costs have risen sometimes 10-15% in one year so that even when people with a good salaried job get their 3% ‘merit increase’ if they’re lucky, they are still facing less money in their paycheck. So an increase in the costs of employing people yes, but it doesn’t mean more money in their pocket.
Add to that the increase in the cost of commuting/food because of the rise in price of gas.
Add to that the fact that corporate greed is rewarded with tax breaks.
I an stunned that flat and sinking wages are not known by any one following politics. This is extensively discussed and debated .
With the increase in inflation, gas prices and medical costs, flat and dropping wages is a cut in standard of living. Its real and many American are feeling it.
A couple of things here. First off, I’m not sure if you are aware of this but a lot of funding for programs like eRate come from the percentage of free lunches/reduced lunchs awarded to students. So…a lot of times it’s in the best interest of a school to, um, inflate that number, so to speak.
For instance my son goes to a school in Rio Rancho…and he gets free lunch (and free breakfast as well). Now…by no means am I rich. I’m solidly middle class (well, maybe upper middle class here in New Mexico). My son (and other parents children) gets a free lunch and free breakfast not because we can’t afford it but because the school wants it that way. The fact that my son is Hispanic probably doesn’t hurt either.
Fear, I haven’t had time to go through your links (sorry I missed your link earlier…it wasn’t deliberate you know?). I’ll try and go through them this afternoon, work permitting and if I have any comments to add I’ll do so. Though we disagree on this stuff pretty much fundamentally I appreciate that you actually took the time to get links to back up your position.
The lack of foreign investment in the US is our own fault. Too often it’s blocked for “national interest” but it’s simple protectionism. See the Unocal and Dubai Ports controversies where we told foreign investors we didn’t want their money. Very short-sighted.
