The "car train" revisited.

No, no jet packs. Not for the general public. A few high-risk daredevils may use them perhaps. But jetpacks can only carry enough fuel to last for a few minutes at most, meaning every flight has to be a well-timed, well-planned excursion. They’re dangerous as hell, because any failure in the system means death (you’re not high enough for a parachute to work).

Will the military use them? If they find a need, I suppose. Perhaps a platoon of people who can jump over a barrier very quickly might be useful in some cases and worth the risk. But you’ll never see them in widespread public use.

A jet pack update! :slight_smile:

So in terms of technical feasibility and safety, “never” may be an overstatement. Actually … uh … “taking off” … as a product? I don’t see it.

Be very wary of companies like this. This company looks more legit than some, but there are a lot of companies out there that are promising all kinds of fantastic devices that will never see the light of day. Often they advertise them in magazines like Popular Mechanics, offering ‘info-kits’ for sale for $25 or $50, and seeking ‘investors’. Excited potential buyers (or dreaming kids) plonk down the money, and get a few pamphlets in the mail consisting of rendered drawings, a crappy little technical booklet full of made-up statistics, and little else.

Eventually, you discover that the company’s real product is the ‘info-kit’, and the fanciful aircraft they are ‘selling’ is nothing more than a fiberglass mockup shell.

Have a look at this: The SoloTrek XFV. Look familiar? It was in ‘flight trials’ ten years ago, and was supposed to be available within a year or two. The company even had NASA on board for some form of testing. It failed, and the company is gone. The guy who designed that also ‘designed’ a VTOL airplane called the “Aurora 400” which was heavily advertised in Popular Mechanics - see it here. Note the $37 price tag for a ‘47 page development report’. That was the real product, and no one ever saw an Aurora 400.

Sometimes these companies actually do real engineering work, but are run by people who lack insight or common sense and don’t understand how unreasonable their plans are. The prototypical (heh) example of this would be the Moller Skycar. Paul Moller is a real professor of aeronautical engineering, and has built some pretty cool stuff. But his ‘Skycar’ has been suckering investors and kids desperate for his ‘info-kits’ for something like 30 years now. It’s always only a year or two away from real flight trials. His performance numbers don’t add up, most other engineers who look at the design think it’s a draggy, uncertifiable mess with so many technical hurdles and safety issues that it doesn’t have a hope in hell of ever being more than a one-off prototype which will be lucky to ever even get the point where it can transition from hover to vertical flight, let alone be a practical vehicle.

But every year or two, some credulous organization like CNN or People Magazine will get sucked in to the hype and do a big feature on the Skycar, saying that it will be flying in a year or two and that a revolution in personal transportation is just around the corner. This no doubt results in a new flood of money to Moller who, judging by his current website, uses it to commission more 3D renderings of the thing looking cool in the sky instead of spending the money on actual research.

Back to that Australian ‘jetpack’. It looks like it actually flies, but don’t take its claim of safety too seriously. It suffers from the same flaws as the SoloTrek - a ballistic parachute doesn’t help much when you’re within a few hundred feet of the ground, and devices like this would spend almost all their time in that regime. It uses a 2-stroke engine to save weight, but those engines are not as reliable as typical aircraft engines. It’s a complex device full of moving parts that have high loads on them (imagine the gyroscopic precession forces on those big rotor pods). If any of those components fail - instant death. Helicopters and airplanes have passive safety - a helicopter will auto-rotate to the ground if the engine fails, and an airplane will glide. This thing becomes a brick if the engine fails. And that’s probably the best failure - if a pod breaks or it throws a rotor or ingests a large bird, it’ll probably shake itself to pieces, and you with it.

One day, one of these companies will get far enough to make something that’s actually saleable. If they do, it’ll be $150,000, and will be sold as an experimental device, available only to well-heeled homebuilt aircraft enthusiasts with a high tolerance for risk. And a few will be killed flying it, and then the rest of them will be mothballed or trotted out for use under controlled conditions as demonstrators or movie props - like the actual jet pack that’s been around for decades and works just fine so long as you don’t fly it for more than half a minute or so.

Here’s the real deal. Hey, it’s only $150,000 for a 30 second range. Well, $150,000 and the cost of a good orthopedic surgeon, anyway. Apparently, they have a tendency to destroy knees, since you’re landing on your legs wearing 150 lbs on your back.

I wish I didn’t have to be so pessimistic about this, because I was one of those kids drooling over those fantastic ads. If I’d had the money for the info-kits, I would have purchased all of them. Too bad almost all turned out to be frauds.

So whatever happened to Michael Moshier, the guy who ‘developed’ the Aurora 400 and the SoloTrek XFV that got so much attention a few years ago? It looks like he’s selling an ‘Anti-Aging Straight Talk’ report - only $29.95 for a PDF file.

He’s also a Confidential Business Consultant, touting his ability to earn tons of money for 35 years while not producing a single viable product. He specializes in ‘Way Out of the Box’ thinking.

This one though seems to be a real deal. It even made TIME’s 50 best inventions of 2010 list.

No not a practical solution for traffic congestion and I am sure it produces a ton of CO2. And no doubt riskier than riding a motorcycle without a helmet. But still pretty damn cool. I’m with Time’s assessment though: “The commercial application may be more for first responders than for early adopters.”

More relevant to this thread is another on Time’s 50 best list: Google’s driverless car.

The Solotrek was also one of Time’s 50 best inventions about ten years ago. Never underestimate the ability of an uneducated ‘tech journalist’ to be snookered by some shiny renderings and a model.

The Solotrek was a real machine. It failed to meet its backers required development schedule and lost funding. Honestly, as an item of engineering the concept seems well within reach. But the real world uses for such a product are small, as much as it is the stuff of boyhood fantasies. Why anyone is even investing in the concept today at all is beyond me. Thinking about it, the real world uses - military recon, search and rescue operations - robot vehicles and drones could do or be developed to for those functions cheaper and better now. (And I’d think the flying debris and updrafts of disaster circumstances would make them poorly suited for a first responder purpose.) As for traffic congestion, well the “car train”/platooning, which does not require the sophistication of Google’s fully self driving vehicle concept but might benefit from it in the not unforeseeable future, is a much more practical solution.

Another update of how the technology to “car train” is marginally advancing.

It’l never work, just like the internet,mobile phones,Pcs, cable and hovercrafts don’t work.

Until a few years down the line when all the Luddites will conveniently forget that they made this statement as oft times before.

Honestly, someone let me know if posting updates regarding this concept is just annoying and I’ll stop but unless told to do so, here’s another:

That SARTRE test went off well.

Sprint is also working on “Machine to Machine” communication, but they do not currently discuss using that capability for a platooning application.

I think this is great, and I’m glad you’re posting updates. I’ve been reading all kinds of articles lately about ‘platooning’ tests. Most of the major car manufacturers seem to be working on this stuff. GM demonstrated platooned electric vehicles at CES this year. Ford also introduced the all-electric Focus, which seems to me to be a better electric than the Volt. These are all great developments.

http://www.sartre-project.eu/en/Sidor/default.aspx

Generally, people may be going in the same general direction, but tossing a car off at Keokuck like a sack of mail while dressing up the rest of the train will be disruptive. Logistics is an art most people do not understand.

As an aside, my great grandfather worked here: Railroader Printing Building - St. Paul | Home of E.G. Insig… | Flickr until he was 85, setting up the presses to print long stretches of rail lines and sidelines to schedule trains without killing anybody. In the late 19th century this was a step forward.

That Google self-driving car… The blurb implies (though doesn’t actually state) that it’s been tested on busy streets, but how? Where would they have gotten approval for testing it on busy streets? Did they have a human in it ready to override?

Google has apparently tested their self-driving cars around Silicon Valley and San Francisco, with no crack-ups, presumably with local permission and always with someone at the ready in the driver’s seat. The car-train concept has a human professional driver in the lead vehicle, with the rest of the platoon following so is not completely driverless.

Now that Nevada has approved testing of driverless cars within the state, I’m wondering how quickly Google will increase the number of them in operation, find commercial uses, and/or make them available to early-adopter type people. I’m also wondering what type of road enhancements would help the effort? Brighter lines for the cameras? Maybe some kind of simple guide wire along the road to communicate with the car? I suppose it will be the legislative & legal processes that determine the rate of progress more than the technology aspects.

Successful road train test in Barcelona:

https://rumors.automobilemag.com/volvos-road-train-project-a-success-on-public-roads-144319.html

The slow march of progress … an updatein this week’s Economist

More about autonomous driving vehiclesin the article.

Interesting. Of course, that’s a very special case.

I believe that before long it will be technologically feasible to have cars that can safely navigate, if not in cities then at least on the highway, and communicate with each other to improve fuel economy, provide shorter average trip times, and reduce accidents and fatalities.

However, I don’t see it happening in the US due to our legal system and the way that industry responds to it. While it would be easy to argue that a system saves thousands of lives each year, whenever there isserious damage or loss of life, it’ll be attributed (by plaintiff) to the manufacturers, who will be liable for millions in damages.

For anything like this to fly, manufacturers would need some kind of indemnity or loss caps. Of course, many of us wouldn’t really like to see indemnity or loss caps, because with those in place, manufacturers can get sloppy.

Most Americans (or at least, a large minority) would rather keep their lives in their own hands than trust it to some system, even if the odds are better with the system.

BTW, I didn’t see the Google car project mentioned above. That at least demonstrates that we’re getting close, technologically.

My main problem with this is it wouldn enable them to charge us up the wazoo for driving, to the extent electronic tolling isn’t doing that already.

I think the Insurance industry would have something to say about that. They care about the odds, not your comfort. If the odds favor automated driving, you’ll get a discount for automated driving, or a different level of coverage, like no deductible collision for no additional charge.

That is the sort of concrete benefit that people are going to need to start switching to automated driving.

A reasonable time to update again …

Besides Google’s more recent progress and promises

China is now trying to get into the game.

Would people pay extra for it? Apparently 20% say they would pay an additional $3K for it.

Sure add in an insurance discount. And the emerging place of car sharing programs … how about an app that let’s you order up the vehicle you need for the occasion and it drives to meet you at the designated time and place? But I still the first big market being truck platoons.