It’s nonsense for lots of reasons, but one of the most basic is that Ruby shot Oswald almost 48 hours after Kennedy had been killed. During that time, Oswald had been talking to police interrogators (although most of his talking was described as “arrogant”, and he made lots of declarations about his rights). In fact, his transfer to the jail (allowing Ruby time to arrive and shoot him) was delayed, in part, because a postal inspector had arrived to question Oswald.
So this notion that Ruby was silencing Oswald is nonsense.
Especially since Ruby had already been inside the jail hallway, amongst the reporters, on a few occasions when Oswald was being passed through. If he was there to kill him, why wait?
(And, of course, Ruby was a blabbermouth. Nobody would trust him with secrets. And also a hothead; an impulsive killing was in line with his personality. And once you kill Oswald to silence him, don’t you have to kill Ruby, who is also now able to talk to law enforcement, and made absolutely no effort to hide his identity or evade capture? Oh, and just as with Oswald, if he was acting on behalf of a bigger power, how were they helping him? Money? Weapons? A getaway? Or is it just that a mobster just calls people and tells them to kill somebody - for the first time ever - and they just go “Ok”? Don’t mobsters do drive by’s, anyway?)
One of the common-sense things that has always sent my Spidey-sense tingling about the JFK assassination is the limo. You don’t need to be any sort of advanced investigator to think that maybe the car itself could have provided valuable evidence about the assassination, yet the limo was (as I understand it) immediately scrubbed clean, repaired, damaged parts replaced, thoroughly detailed. Wouldn’t the basics of investigative work dictate that that limo be sequestered to a highly restrictive police lab, scoured for clues by experts over a period of months if not years, with every tiny detail noted, photographed from every conceivable angle, etc.? Instead it was cleaned up and rushed back into service. To me, that screams “cover-up.” Even if we learned nothing at all useful from minute examination of the limo, you’d want to follow these procedures just to assure the public that the investigation was painstakingly thorough.
Yeah, the only thing that everybody agreed on, that knew Jack Ruby, was that he was the last person in the world anyone would trust with something important like that. He was pretty much coo-coo for coco puffs.
They did send Dr. Jolyon West, a psychiatrist, to visit Ruby in his cell. Dr. West was one of the leading authorities on the cloak and dagger spook shit. Ruby was medicated, hypnotized and interrogated. They would have undoubtedly done the same to Oswald had he lived.
Where’d you get this from? It sounds like one of the falsehoods that Oliver Stone peddled in his movie, JFK.
In reality, the car was sequestered and then scoured for clues.
And while they didn’t spend years looking at it, it didn’t return to service for 6 months. And, yes, it was revamped - the need for more protection was pretty self evident at that point.
In fact, there’s a recorded call between LBJ and J. Edgar Hoover in the days after the assassination. Amazingly, at that point Hoover had a more secure vehicle- he was telling the president that his car needed to be bulletproof.
One of the more illuminating things to do is go to the 6th Floor Museum in Dallas and take a look out the actual window itself. If you are familiar with firearms at all, what shocks you is not the difficulty but rather how silly it is that conspiracy theorists make it seem such a big deal
I personally put a lot of the blame on this famous scene from Full Metal Jacket for inadvertently popularizing making it sound like it was a difficult shot to make.
You don’t even have to leave your computer to do that .
It’s freeware, a ‘perfect’ score in the game is exactly recreating Oswald’s shots. It’s much easier to do better than he did and get a lower score in the game.
This is about the third item that is not accurate, in the style of Oliver stone: the pile up is going against the conspiracists that told you that by not telling their readers and viewers items that derail their train of thought.
To begin with, the technology that would be needed for that at the time did not exist then, that is, less forensic tech, less time needed. Then there is the fact the limo was looked at.
let me call your attention to the first hand notes made by FBI Agent Robert Frazier and his team when they were given access to the limo in the early morning hours of November 23, photographing and examining everything.
At the bottom of the page he wrote: No bullet holes found.
Now as for the limousine itself, after the Secret Service and later the FBI took photos of the limo’s interior and thoroughly searched it for evidence (with the windshield removed and subsequently stored in the National Archives), it was cleaned and valeted at the Ford Plant in Dearborn, Michigan (more of that below). It was sent back to Hess & Eisenhardt to be modified further, and was rebuilt from the ground up for $500,000. The decision to redo the limo was made for practical reasons: it was deemed less expensive and would take less time to modify the existing car rather than procure and design a new one. LBJ had nothing to do with it.
Yeah, I’ve lived in DFW pretty much my whole life, and I’ve made innumerable trips through that intersection. It’s a ridiculously easy shot with a rifle at that range. If you’ve ever shot a squirrel with a pellet gun, you’ve made a much more difficult shot than Oswald made on that day.
Frankly, I’ve never seen any evidence that would make me think a second shooter is even really plausible. The fact that Oswald was already known to be a nut and had told Marina he had taken a shot at Walton Walker makes me think we don’t really need any other explanation about the event.
“Substantial evidence” in this specific case does not seem to exist in the public sphere. As detailed in the article I posted, circumstantial evidence does exist. Owing to failings – intentional or otherwise – in the official investigation, it cannot be determined from the information available whether the reasons to believe in a conspiracy are “good” or not, only that such reasons and some evidence to support them does exist.
After additional research, I believe this puts me in sync with (one of) the conclusion(s) of the late ‘70s Select Committee Report: “The committee believes, on the basis of the evidence available to it, that the national syndicate of organized crime, as a group, was not involved in the assassination of President Kennedy, but that the available evidence does not preclude the possibility that individual members may have been involved.”
WTF? Were you unable to read the article I posted? Did you not understand it?
Good questions. Beyond identifying and recruiting Oswald, I do not have the answers. Given the stakes, it stands to reason Oswald himself might not have known the answers, or even been aware there was anyone behind his effort. Such arrangements were/are not unprecedented. See Findings | National Archives beginning near the bottom of pg. 162.
First off, they quite reasonably calculated that the U.S. gov’t would not want to blame the commies for the assassination and risk war. For this purpose, they even provided a “patsy.” More to the point here, as long as people suspected other parties, they would not suspect organized crime.
Given the risk of WWIII if the Soviets or Cubans were found to have been involved in the hit - or even if the American public believed they were - the gov’t had compelling reasons to assign full blame on Oswald as quickly as possible. Even if they had known or suspected the mob was involved – and from what I have read, such suspicions were discussed - prosecuting mob figures for the crime left an unacceptable risk they would not get a conviction. That would have severely damaged the gov’t’s cred. All of which makes blaming everything on Oswald a “preferable” choice for the gov’t.
As I already made clear, I believe the FBI and the Warren Commission covered up details of the assassination investigation for compelling reasons of their own, not because they were linked to the assassination plot itself.
“Ideal” is a big word, but otherwise, yes. The Select Committee link I posted a few paragraphs ago lists 3 examples of more or less hapless loners/drug addicts without any mob connections being recruited by go-betweens for hits without ever knowing the mob was behind their efforts.
Sure, whatever you say. My point was that the car belongs in a historical museum, perfectly preserved in the condition it was in when the bullets hit, for scholars and investigators immemorial to examine ad infinitum, with notarized attestations aplenty assuring folks it hasn’t been tampered with in the least, if only to reassure the public that this aspect of the crime is transparent and the government has nothing to hide.
They could save bucks by refurbishing it rather than outfitting a new model? You can believe that as a compelling reason if you choose. I don’t buy it for an instant.
Meh, the reality is that you did follow the unrealistic, unsecured, and mistaken influencers out there that have an interest in keeping a good number of the public unreassured.
Again, this latest bit about the limo was wrong, like the item about the bullet, and many others. It is piling up indeed, but the evidence is piling up against the flights of fancy coming from conspiracy minded guys out there.
Just one more thing, what you quoted is not what I did say, that was coming from the notes from the FBI, and others that did investigate the limo, while the other side has… just “so” histories.
The House committee’s conclusion that there was a conspiracy was reached at the last minute. An earlier draft affirmed the Warren Commission’s conclusions, but the infamous Dictabelt recording came in and convinced them to argue instead there were four shots and thus likely a conspiracy. The Dictabelt evidence has since been discredited.
I didn’t see a reference to “dogs,” but apparently his “beloved dachshund Sheba” was left in the car. No one who has a dachshund would leave it behind unless it was an impulsive act. Irrefutable!
Also, every time some says “magic bullet” I think “magic loogie.”
Actually, I think that the true explanation is that Oswald was both shooters; while in Soviet Russia he was subject to a secret cloning program that produced a second (and perhaps even third or more) Oswald, who was trained to be an expert sharpshooter by Spetsnez GRU Sniper commandos, who then seconded him back out to the Mafia, which contracted him to bother Hoover and LBJ. (Castro bid but couldn’t compete on the unfavorable terms offered by Sam Giancana.) The ‘real’ Oswald would actually have missed except that ‘Red’ Oswald shot his bullet in mid-flight, expertly redirecting it into Kennedy, which explains the supposedly ‘odd’ trajectory and secondhand witness claims of a shooter on the grassy knoll.
Hoover was just establishing his alibi with an “I told you so!” anecdote. You don’t get to run the FBI for decades with minimal oversight while wearing women’s underclothes without having a solid grasp on cover-ups and blackmail, you know.
You say so, but I assert that it should have gone straight from examination in a variety of labs into a historical museum instead of straight into refurbishment (destruction of evidence) and everyday use.
Stranger’s clone theory makes sense to me!
I mentioned the “poor shot” allegations to suggest how conspiracy theorists will twist and turn every which way to make “evidence” “fit.”
The idea that the limo should be kept so anyone could gawk at it, like the Bonnie and Clyde “death car,” would likely be repellent to many people, including the Kennedy family. It would be extremely unlikely to reveal any new information, and anything found would be tainted beyond belief. “Look! Under the floor mat! A bullet THAT DOES NOT FIT OSWALD’S RIFLE!” would hardly be compelling. The morbidly curious, however, would undoubtedly enjoy checking it out, but to absolutely no purpose save morbid curiosity. Nothing is gained by indulging that.
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