Speak Chinese? Don’t be silly. As anybody who has watched US soldiers in Iraq knows all you have to do is shout English as loudly as you can. Everybody understands that perfectly!
Blimey, that might explain it. Of course, I don’t know what the men were convicted of, but I got the impression they were political prisoners. I may be wrong. Half of the monastery that I visited, about 5 km outside Zhongdian, had been completely demolished, though the main building was intact. I thought that it had been destroyed during the Cultural Revolution, but it may have been during the invasion - was Zhongdian always in Yunnan, or did they redraw the borders when they too Tibet? At the time I was there, parts of it were being rebuilt with ‘apology’ money from the Chinese government, according to one of the monks.
jjimm, zhongdian now renamed Shangrila is in the Deqen Tibetan Autonomous region. It was part of Greater Tibet before 1949. Zhongdian was visited by the PLA IIRC in 1956 and the PLA dynamited the monastary to ruins. When I was there in 1985, there were only about 3 buildings that had been rebuilt. I’ve seen recent photos and it is amazing that most of the hundreds of buildings have been rebuilt.
The current province of Tibet is about half the size of what was traditionally Tibet. Most of Qinghai, northern and western Sichuan (Xikang), northern Yunnan and parts of Gansu all used to be part of what many would have called Tibet.
Yunnan has rarely been part of China. The Nanzhao Kingdom of Dali rivaled Tang China in size and strength.
I’d like to become an English teacher there after graduating college.
Anyway, jjimm’s execution story is very akin to what was described in an article I read in either Times or Newsweek a few years back concerning public executions. Unnerving stuff.
Well, I’m gradually running out of questions, but I can conjure up a few more.
Do you know of any good websites that explain Chinese culture?
What are some good books on modern Chinese history?
Is it ever safe to drink the water?
Buy bottled water or boil it. Some will be “pre-boiled” where you live, I think, I don’t remember exactly how that works.
As for English teaching, how are you approaching that? As a “get some experience after college” plan? A medium-term career? Or a"pay my way while I learn Chinese" plan? I personally am a bit cynical about English teaching in Asia. I don’t want to be too discouraging since you’re obviously more ambitious than average to think five years ahead at your age, but anything you’re likely to be able to get straight out of college is probably going to be a pretty thankless gig, I can really only recommend it as a way to subsidize other activities that need to be done in China or wherever. The pay is generally embarrassingly high by local- or in some places, even US- standards, so for financial support it can indeed be good. Seems like from what I’ve heard, the best place to make money and not get screwed over somehow is probably Japan, though they probably want TEFL certification. In China certification probably doesn’t matter, but you’re taking your chances when you are employed in a cutthroat business if all they ask is that you’re white. Other territories have their own individual irritants as far as boss/student attitudes, job requirements, and immigration.
I personally have only taught English in Hong Kong, but between my experience, the experience of people I know, and stuff I’ve read, I have to say that at least to me teaching English is a fallback support plan, not one you spend five years on. If it appeals to you enough that you try to work up some qualifications in the meantime you may be able to get something more desirable, though.
I’ll admit, though, that I should probably take some of the complaints of problems I haven’t experienced myself with a grain of salt as, as mentioned, a good chunk of Americans in Asia seem to be whiny losers who don’t know anything about dealing with the place they’re in.
You know, I think the above was probably too much griping based on my own personal frustrations, though judging by adecdotes I’ve seen I could be doing a LOT worse. I’m sure a lot of people with the right personality who are smart (or lucky, like me) about where they decided to work make it work fine. Just look for more info than promotional materials and see if it’s really right for you. What you need more than anything, I think, is chutzpah.
Wellllll…I wouldn’t say that. You’re correct it was an independant area for quite some time, both as the Nan-Chao state and its successor, the kingdom of Ta-Li. It is the “youngest” of the southern provinces. But Yunnan was definitively added to China during the Yuan period by Qublai Khan ( in 1253 ), serving as general for his brother Mongke. It’s been “Chinese” ( as a possession, not necessarily ethnically ) more or less ever since ( Mongol garrisons held it from 1368-1382, when the the Ming finally forced them out ). It was a restive area with its numerous minority tribes ( and a growing Muslim population ) and thus with adjoining Kweichow was one of the most heavily garrisoned regions during the Ming dynasty. It was also the last Ming province to fall to the Manchus ( last loyalists exterminated by Wu San-Kuei in 1661 ).
So it’s been Chinese in an imperial sense for ~750 years. Not long, by Chinese standards :D.
- Tamerlane
Some more inquiry upon China:
-What is modern Chinese music like? Are there many Chinese rock artists?
-How easy is it to find English literature in a big city, say, Shanghai or Beijing?
-What’s the difference between simplified and traditional Chinese writing?
Which language is better to learn, Mandarin or Cantonese?
I think I can answer that one. Unless you’ll be in Hong Kong or Macau, learn Mandarin.
Right guys?
Yay! There’s already a thread going where I can ask my question.
I heard today, "SARS sounds like the Chinese word for ‘to kill’ ".
Is this true? How much does it really sound like it?
Thanks!
Tammerlane, to be more specific, the core or central part of yunnan has been under imperial control as you described. However the border areas including what is now referred to as the quite large Deqen Tibetan Autonomous region was not under imperial control.
There are still some “Mongolian” villages in Yunnan. Decendants of the warriors that came down during the Yuan dyasty. They speak a form of Mongolian.
SARS in China is called “feidian”, although 1-2 months ago I saw it referred to as ‘sasi’ which is pretty close to “shasi” or to murder.
Only study Cantonese if you’re going to be exclusively in HK or Guangdong Province, or have some special reasons for doing so. Otherwise, Mandarin is the only language that is close to being understood throughout China.
Teaching in China can be interesting. As space vampire pointed out, it’s usually a way station. However, if you want to be a teacher there are opportunities to become a professor. if you want to make money teaching in China, then you should check out the international schools. I imagine there are plenty of openings for the next semester owing to SARS.
China Guy, if you don’t mind emailing me I’d like to ask you a personal favor.
Having just returned from spending a semester studying in China, I’ll give these questions my best shot. Bear in mind that the majority of my interactions were with college students.
-Discussion of dissidents, what’s it like?
Not all that common- the average Chinese person tends to be only less politically apathetic than Americans.
-How frequent are public executions? Have any of you Chinese Dopers ever witnessed them? No one ever discussed these with me- maybe in a very rural area, but certianly not in the more developed areas.
-How restrictive is internet access? On campus, at the university where I was, pre-Iraqi war, some sites (ie. cnn.com) were blocked, but with the onset of the war they were opened. Otherwise, I could go anywhere except for a few Taiwan related sites.
-How free is travel is Xinjiang?
I haven’t heard of any restrictions. I never ran into any problems, but that may have been because I was mainly in the Eastern and Southern areas of China- also, I travelled often with Chinese people and rarely had the experience of just being a bumbling group of foreigners.
-Is Tiannanmen Square a taboo subject?
Not really, but no one is overly interested in discussing it. Many view it as a tragic but necessary action taken by the government.
-What will people think if you consider Taiwan independent? Ummm, most likely they will think that you are really messed up.
-How are the Cultural Revolution and the Great Leap Forward viewed by the general populace? How are they taught in school? Few Chinese people had much of anything positive to say about either of these events. At the university level they are often referred to as “the wasted years.” My one Chinese professor explained the mindset surrounding them by saying “the people then were MAD- M-A-D!”
-What’s the latest on the Chinese government investigating claims of a UFO landing site in some part of rural China? Haven’t heard anything about it
-How pervasive is government spying? Like someone pointed out earlier, as the government has lost control on the movements of the population, they have also lost survelliance abilities. At the same time, I’m fairly sure my phone was tapped at the university I stayed in.
-How much relative freedoms do the people enjoy?
A large amount of personal freedom- in day-to-day life there is little or nothing that people are “afraid” to do. Religious and societal freedoms are often quite different than portrayed in America. Then again, as the saying goes “the mountains are high and the emporer is far away”- basically, in a country as vast as China, anything can and often does happen, someplace at sometime.
-What’s the ‘on the streets’ opinion of the US? Chinese people usually love Americans! They are very curious and many express an interest in coming to the US. However, their feelings toward the US government are (especially since the war) often less than positive.
-What’s the general consensus about the war in Iraq? As I inferred in the previous question, the war has really hurt Sino-US relations on a number of fronts. Basically, many Chinese have lost any respect they had for the American way of handing foreign policy and view the US government as out of line and way too nosy.
Hope that helps!
Chinese music pretty much blows to my ear. Taiwan and Hong Kong mostly put out syrupy pops songs, I’m not as familiar with mainland music but it seems like it’s the same idea but a little more old fashioned; I know when I was in modern, hip establishments they would usually be piping in Taiwanese music, at least when I could idenitify it. There are some rock bands around, Beijing has some good punk bands. I know some of the people I studied with ended up liking some of the popular songs, but generally speaking it’s pop music or you’re going to have to hunt hard.
I never tried as I wasn’t there to read English, but it seems like some friends picked up books. I would say you probably won’t have a great selection (even in Hong Kong selection seems pretty weak for the most part) but if you know where to find the right stores I’m sure you can find something. I seem to recall Beijing having the biggest book store I’d ever been too, they must’ve had a handful of English books.
Obviously simplified is simpler, it’s used in the mainland but not Hong Kong or Taiwan. Personally I hate simplified characters, they are of course easier to write, but to me their simplification makes them harder to remember in some cases because they often lose their phonetic or meaning hints. I liked simplified when I was being tested on how to write, now that I only read and type I can’t stand them.
The only reason to study Cantonese is if you’re in areas where it’s spoken, and perhaps cachet since not that many people learn it. It also makes Mandarin look easy, so for most the choice should be obvious. That said, I think Cantonese is much cooler than Mandarin.
You’re kidding me. Shangrila?!?!
I think he’s serious. I’ve seen a city in the region you mentioned called “Shangrila” on numerous tourist maps. Heh.
Not kidding. The big tourist draw. Actually, it was quite a fight for which place among a bunch of competitors would get that distiction. Certainly, no one who went to Zhongdian in the winter like I did would call it Shangrila.
There are some rock artists, but the music scene is still dominated by pop. I think we’re going through a “boyband” phase right now. If you’re worried you won’t find any good music here, there’s plenty of pirated CDs to buy. You can find some really good stuff for US$1-2.
There are a couple of foreign language book stores in Shanghai. You can buy foreign (US) newspapers and magazines. Best-sellers (Tolkein, John Grisham, Oprah book list, etc.) are easy to find, but you’ll have a hard time finding really obscure ones. They do have a large selection of romance novels though. 
Classics are plenty. You can find these at local bookstores at a much cheaper price.
If you’re looking for a teaching job, try my school, Shanghai High School International Division. According to my economics teacher (from the US), it’s a good job. Teach a couple of classes a day, free boarding, electricity, water, one round-trip ticket back home each year. Lots of holidays. Also due to SARS, you can probably negotiate your salary.
I’ve only spent two weeks in China this January, so obviously I would defer to people with more experience. But I can tell you what I saw.
Don’t know.
In two weeks I never even heard of an execution. I watched the Communist Party TV for some hours, and never saw one.
They have lots of Internet cafes. What sites are blocked at any given time I don’t know. E-mail to the U.S. and back was never blocked when I used it.
As of January 2003, it was quite easy. I flew to Urumqi, the capitol city of Xinjiang, on China Southern Airlines and was never challenged (I’m a white-bread American and had “foreigner” written all over me). While there, both in the city itself and during my trip to Heaven Lake, nobody questioned me on account of being a foreigner. (Locals did charge me outrageous prices for groceries, but that goes without saying for foreigners all over China).
It was a bit eerie standing at Tiananmen Square; there’s not a sign of the massacre there, not even a Communist-paty-line version of it. I didn’t bring the subject up, but a Malaysian fellow I was traveling with, who has lived in China for a while, talked about the murders (in English) without apparent fear.
Don’t know, didn’t discuss it.
While in Urumqi I talked about the Cultural Revolution (in English, my Chinese stinks), with a Uighur medical student, asking him what effect it had had on medical education in China. He considered it to have had a bad effect at the time, but in his opinion Chinese medicine has recovered from it completely.
Don’t know.
I never caught anybody spying on me. However, my Uighur friends are of the definite opinion that spies are common, especially on the trains.
I could not detect any heavy-handed oppression during my brief visit (of course, I wasn’t in Tibet, which may be the most ruthlessly oppressed area). I saw no criticism of the government, which may be the result of a) my illiteracy in Chinese, b) censorship, and/or c) contentment. Muslim religious ritual appears to be freely practiced in Xinjiang; the mosques were open and well-attended on Fridays.
The most clearly oppressive thing I saw was the one-child policy, I talked to a Han Chinese lady who was trying hard to get to America because she wanted another baby. Interestingly, the Uighurs said they were not subject to the one-child policy.
Lots and lots of people want to come to America real bad. People are polite and friendly to Americans (or at least to me), but are also quick to price-gouge them. While at the Badaling section of the Great Wall I ran into a troop of yellow-coated schoolchildren all of whom said, “Hello!”, being eager to demonstrate their English capabilities.
As of January, the unanimous opinion on the war in Iraq was that America was after the oil. My opinion to the contrary was politely received, but I don’t think I convinced anybody.
Incidentally, the country the Chinese seem to dislike the most is Japan. CCTV coverage of Koizumi’s visit to the Yasukuni shrine was very negative (they described the shrine as “dedicated to war criminals”). I was on a flight with two Japanese businessmen, and I was the only one who would talk to them.