You really have no fucking clue. What lieu’s neighbor did fits several of the definitions for Aggravated Assault in Texas. Using force to defend yourself from Assault or Aggravated Assault is perfectly legal. lieu did not commit a crime.
If lieu was trespassing, his neighbor is required by Texas law to inform him of such. If lieu refused to leave, his neighbor could have used force, but not deadly force, to make him comply. Guess what hitting someone with a tire iron is considered to be.
I personally would not have punched this guy in the nose. Now, it’s possible that I might have broken his arm or fingers when I disarmed him, but I wouldn’t have gone for his face immediately. Maybe some of the rest of you would have let him hit you so you could demonstrate your righteousness and cement your status as a victim, but I wouldn’t.
And while we’re on the subject of threatening, when did he threaten anyone with a tire iron? You’re not allowed to carry a tire iron on your own property? How is that a threat? Who charged onto whose property? I mean, what you’re proposing is fascinating; if I am ever carrying anything on my property that could constitute a weapon - say, a baseball bat, or a shovel - you can walk onto my property, argue with me, and then attack me, and I’m guilty of assault? Somehow I don’t think that’s the way it works. And apparently the cops agreed with me, since they arrested lieu, charged him, suckered him into confessing, and might convict him of assault.
Of course, you might then make the argument that he assaulted lieu by “Tapping him on the chest” with the iron. Well, I’ll be quite honest with you; I’m inclined to believe that didn’t happen the way he describes it. Maybe it did and maybe it didn’t, but we know lieu is prone to physical violence. We know he’s attacked at least one person before without provocation. We know lieu was the one who charged onto the guy’s property spoiling for a confrontation. I’d bet dollars to donuts he went over there screaming and threatening, and I’ll bet dollars to donuts the guy DID tell him to get the fuck off my property, and I’ll bet dollars to pennies lieu refused. I could be wrong, of course, but I know a one-sided fish tale when I see it, too. If you play the “What’s More Likely?” game, it becomes pretty apaprent that the confrontation was likely initiated by the guy who went storming over to the other guy’s garage. And I know from long experience that people’s memories tend to add and subtract details post-hoc - invariably in their favour.
You wanna know what a reasonable gentleman would have done? Walk up to the property line. Call the guy’s name. Ask what happened and why. If he starts blabbering about how your wife and kid deserved it, or pokes you with a tire iron, you turn around, walk inside, call the cops. See how easy that was? And that way you don’t get arrested! And maybe get the OTHER guy arrested. More effective. Less dangerous. It works all around.
Personally, I hope lieu doesn’t go to jail. It’s simply not that serious an issue; it’s not like he kicked the guy into unconsciousness. “Bill” was not crippled. The world will not be made better if a father and husband spends time in jail for punching some jerk in the schnozz. But as I and many other posters have pointed out, lieu may want to consider looking into ways of, you know, not punching other people out as a way of solving problems. Eventually you WILL get in deep shit.
Lieu,I’m afraid it looks pretty bad for you .The fact that you were on his property is your first downfall and the fact that you threw the first punch was your second.The court will take little regard for the harressment he has given you,your family, and your neighbors. Facts are facts and that’s what they are going to look at.
On the other hand,if things do go your way, he will be more pissed than ever.You WILL see his revenge I’m afraid.
Demise, perhaps you ought to refrain from offering what could be construed as legal advice regarding a pending criminal prosecution? Particularly when your statements are, shall we say, somewhat arguable in their application to the particular matter at hand?
I don’t think that you have all of this right.
What lieu’s neightbor did fits within the definition of 22.01(a)(3), a harmful or offensive touching. I doubt that self-defense allows you to break a nose in order to prevent a touching. I think that you are misreading the phrase, “including the person’s spouse”. I think the phrases reiterates that it is a crime for one spouse to assault the other.
The big question is whether this is an aggravated assault. Since there is no question that the neighbor failed to case serious bodily injury to lieu, we need to look at whether this harmful or offensive touching occurred with a deadly weapon.
A quick check of case law didn’t show that a tire iron is considered a deadly weapon per se. I don’t think that the jurisprudence on using subsection would support the notion that touching someone on the chest with a tire iron is a use intended to cause death or serious bodily injury.
After the trial, we’ll learn whether lieu committed a crime, but I don’t think that the information we have before us allows us to declare that he didn’t commit one.
Could you elaborate? Or is that also considered to be giving legal advice? That’s an honest question.
Looking at this again, you’re probably right.
After reading your post and thinking about it some more, I guess I was giving too much credence to the word “capable”, and not enough to “in the manner of its use” in regards to part (B) of the definition, which I had read before. So, I’d pretty much have to be carrying a gun or a sword to commit Aggravated Assault by pushing someone? Or could it be claimed that by presenting a tire iron in a threatening manner, and commiting assault while holding it, that you’ve adapted it to the purpose of inflicting death or serious bodily injury? Or is it only after the damage from an attack is assesed that you can determine whether something was a deadly weapon or not?
The “manner of use or intended use” is always going to be a fact specific inquiry. One way to fit the definition is to assess the damage after the fact - did the item cause “death or serious bodily injury” The second is where death or serious bodily injury didn’t happen. In this second scenario, we need to look at the actions that occurred and what was said to infer whether the actor intended death or bodily injury. In the situation in the OP (IIRC), we have tire iron tapping on chest plus potential threats to other people. We don’t have death or serious bodily injury. I don’t think that we have enough facts to say that neighbor intended to cause death or serious bodily injury.
Usually the analysis is done after all the actions are over. But, the definition doesn’t require damage. If the neigbor swung the tire iron, but missed each time, the actions could still make the tire iron a deadly weapon. In all of the aggravated assaults that I can remember, though, usually there is some type of contact between the defendant and victim.
We have a mindreader here, folks! Good going, RickJay, now when will that “dream job” come and find me?
Christ, all of you are acting like idiots. Minty, Demise didn’t in any way offer advice. He was speaking of his local knowledge of the law in TEXAS, not VIRGINIA. None of you know what happened, and one assault does not a violent felon make. Stop judging him by two incidences, stop speculating at what happened, it makes you sound as foolish as his actions were.
Lieu you acted the fool, albeit in the misguided attempt to protect your family from what you percieved as a threat, and I hope it doesn’t bite you on the ass! I like you a lot and that would suck.
GaWd: Where do you glean “mind reading” from? All I see is someone making an assertion as to which version of events is more likely. That’s not mind-reading, by an stretch of the imagination.
Well, his nose may be broken, but that does not necessarily mean he is disfigured. Unlike Owen Wilson, not everyone with a busted schnozz ends up with a crooked schnozz. They’re not that hard to reset.
Exactly, Rick. My question, though, remains: who’s going to fix it so he doesn’t end up like Owen Wilson? I’m sure the doctor’s aren’t going to do it and then expect to not get paid.
Monty, was he there? Did he see it go down? Does he have ANY reason, save a jump to conclusion, to believe that Lieu ran over there, foamed at the mouth and provoked the man into threatening* him with a tire iron?
Nope. I’d say he’d need to be psychic to come to that conclusion from what we know. Being psychic would involve reading his mind to pull the blow-by-blow of the event out and relaying it to us all.
*I personally consider being poked in the chest with a tire iron threatening and would react in-kind to the action(that probably wouldn’t involve smashing his face up, however I digress…)
Yep. lieu’s previous admission to instigating a conflict which culminated in lieu’s punching someone.
I’d still disagree with your comment, though. You see, lieu already admitted to losing control in another situation and in this one he went over there. & all RickJay did say was that he would bet dollars to donuts or pennies (depending on which part of the event he was betting on) as to which version seemed more likely to him. He did not say that it actually happened one way or the other. Now that would require either being present to witness the event or psychic ability. What RickJay did, though, was make a comment about what he believed was more likely.
I personally consider someone larger and stronger than me* raging into my hope apparently bent on violence to be threatening. My guess is Bill felt the same way too. Notice that doesn’t require any psychic ability to make such a guess. I did not say that Bill did feel that way; I merely said that that is my guess.
Chip
*This is a chance for Opal to make another of her bitchy drivebys.
