After a legal pursuing of a noise dispute with a neighbor who refused to change their ways through more subtle requests I’ve been experiencing continuing retaliation from them. It started with thrown glass in front of my home, littering of condoms, tampons an fast food, and most recently loitering near my property. I’ve reported every incident to the police but they’ve been unable to do much without concrete proof that it was this person.
This person has a friend who lives near me and they must pass my home which provides a convenient excuse of why they would be near my property. They go to great effort to engage in indirect retaliation and have yet to personally approach me which is frustrating since it also makes it difficult to catch them. I’ve been saving up for a cctv system but even then it seems like it would only work if they visibly showed their face or license plate when performing an illegal act.
Most recently I was woken up by my car alarm going off and went out to see why, no noticeable damage but unsurprisingly the individual was with a group of friends playing football and likely threw it at my vehicle or struck it themselves. If I had a cctv system I’m sure it would have been useful but they could have claimed to have thrown a bad pass though just with that person in the group it would have raised suspicions.
I feel that law enforcement will be unable to do anything regarding this matter due to this persons persistence on being inconspicuous and randomizing the acts. I really feel like retaliating myself in the belief that it would discourage them from continuing without repercussions. Of course it’s risky and instead may promote a back and forth. I know the mature route is to not stoop to their level but so far all that’s done is allowed them to continue unhindered.
Do I intimidate them in person? That causes no harm if I don’t hit the but has the benefit of showing some dominance where as I’m currently neutral if not on the ropes. The thing is I’ve had great results with “retaliating” in the past though in a different scenario, a couple of guys were throwing paper balls at me in class once and I requested that they stop, they threw another and I walked over to them and slapped the kid, they were shocked and became defensive asking why I did that and I said I asked politely. I was in the process of being picked apart but I retaliated out of rage and destroyed them with the class as a witness. The teacher was borderline senile and had a habit of letting mischievous acts go unnoticed.
Does that event have any relevance to my current predicament? I feel like similarly destroying this person may be the only way to stop them. I’m a little older than this person and really lean towards the letting it go, observe and report style but how can I continue to essentially do nothin while they persist in invading the privacy of my own home?
My options in my opinion seem to be; 1) Don’t retaliate but attempt to acquire proof of future acts to pin them legally. 2) Retaliate in a way that destroys them but causes no actual harm so as to discourage future acts.
Anyone been in similar circumstances or have any good advice on overcoming this?
For questions like this I always suggest Nuke it from orbit or Holy Fire.
I’m so funny, hur hur…
Try this:
[ol]
[li]Do not take advice from me.[/li][li]Talk to a lawyer in your area.[/li][li]:([/li][li]Put up security cameras & lights.[/li][/ol]
Good Luck.
An orbital strike from space would instantly improve my situation. Have already consulted a lawyer who pretty much told me what the cops did, a successful
pursuit would require adequate evidence. Would also involve more money and time that I’m willing to spend at the moment.
Couldn’t agree more on the security cameras, they are easily at the top of my list and will likely provide a lot of peace of mind.
You talk about ‘winning’ a neighbourly dispute.
I really don’t think that applies.
If you are lucky enough to have pleasant neighbours, it’s great.
You have someone:
to talk to
who will keep an eye on your house
who can take in packages
etc.
If you have obnoxious neighbours, your best result is that they don’t bother you, not that you somehow ‘beat’ them.
It’s incredibly hard to control these people (even involving the police) and sadly easy to escalate the situation.
You have three options:
a) acquire proof of future acts to pin them legally
b) retaliate in a way that destroys them
c) move
a) could work, but requires both that the police are satisfied with your proof and that a court administers a dramatic punishment (e.g. getting them to move.)
b) is likely to lead to worse behaviour (e.g. they call in nasty friends to help intimidate you further ‘because they live next door to a crazy person’.)
c) may be what you have to do.
Did you ask your lawyer if there was any possibility of getting a restraining order? If they could be required to not hang out in the street near your property, but pass by your property without stopping, you’d be better situated to complain to the police when they took their sweet time passing by, or tossed a football around in front of your property.
There are two solutions. One is silly and one sensible. The silly solution is to shoot them on sight. Fatally, not to wound. The sensible solution is to move.
Anything else is just goofing around and playing their game with them on their terms. To your great annoyance and expense. Other than the police jailing all of them and their friends for life, what exactly could the police do that would actually alter their behavior? Nothing. They have already demonstrated they’re happy violating the law to annoy you. Being told by a cop or a judge to “knock it off” would simply mean they’d be violating a slightly bigger law while still doing what they’ve been doing.
The only way for you to win is not to play the game.
We had a neighbor like this (I posted about her here, but it was a long time ago…2002 or so?). The bulk of her actions happened when our house was already on the market, so we solved the problem by moving. Before we left, though, we had a whole line of trees/shrubs that died; they ran right along our property line, next to her driveway. We needed to replace them, so we headed to the nursery to buy some new ones. When we saw the shrub whose description said that they produced copious, staining berries and under no circumstances to plant them next to driveways or sidewalks, we knew we’d found our perfect replacement!
I’m not sure. While contacting police should rarely be the first step, playing some role in neighbor disputes is a legitimate function of law enforcement. They might tell you you just have to suck it up, or they might have a talk with the neighbor. But cops would generally rather be involved instead of neighbors escalating conflict.
If instances increase after you call the cops, that might be of interest to them, and might lead them to stepping up their efforts.
Of course, if you call in the cops, you may have to swear out a complaint, or - at the very least, will have a record made of your having called.
We’ve had crappy neighbors in the past. The only effective remedy was moving. Sucks.
IMO, only if violence or an immediate threat of violence is involved. Throwing a football around ones own front yard, or someone passing by your house to visit a friend doesn’t rise to that level.
Try calling the police in Chicago or Detroit over such a matter.
Call them up, talk to them when they walk by and…
…concede defeat…
Seriously. Apologize for the poor behavior on your part, tell them you won’t be bothering them about issues, you won’t be passive aggressive and be trying to “Win” against them. They win and you won’t be escalating the conflict. Then wave at them every time they walk by, treat them with respect even if you don’t think they deserve it. If you see they need help shoveling their walk, go and assist, if you need help moving a piece of furniture ask them to help you.
Your only other recourse is to move or continue to escalate the problem.
Its your choice. But the idea that you have to “WIN” at the expense of your obnoxious neighbor, makes you an obnoxious neighbor.
Have you ever Lived in Chicago? When?
Have you ever Lived in Detroit? When?
Cite specific instances and events that we can see here where **you have personally contacted **those two police forces about this type of event in the neighborhood where you lived and have personally found that they are just not interested. I’d Hate To Think That You Were Just A Liar.
…Maybe you’ve just made ANOTHER misstatement that you haven’t yet retracted…?
Thanks Bricker! This sure DOES keep your party’s Bloviators in line…
Vandalism is a crime. Therefore contacting the police is appropriate.
He’s not “wasting” law enforcement resources. He’s using them. I’m sure police departments budget for a certain amount of resources to be used for this sort of thing and in fact would rather be consulted before things get out of hand.
The acts of the neighbor go beyond simple littering if they include throwing glass and (presumably used) tampons and condoms. Broken glass is legitimate property damage because it can’t be completely cleaned up and interferes with normal use of his property. Used condoms and tampons contain bodily fluids and are potentially hazardous.
As a comparison, my old neighbors used to do obnoxious things like raking their leaves right on to my lawn - and yes, I caught them in the act. That kind of thing might be covered under some statute, but it was easily and completely remedied by me just raking up the extra leaves so I never even considered calling the cops. If it were broken glass, it would have been a different story.
There’s no indication that the OP is using emergency services such as 911 on this. That would be wasting resources.
To the OP: if nuking them from orbit isn’t feasible, and you can’t do the CCTV thing just yet, I’d suggest the Kill 'Em With Kindness routine suggested by Sigene. You may not want to go quite as far as suggested, but if someone is bent on showing dominance, sometimes the best way to dominate THEM is by topping from the bottom. If you do anything in retaliation, you blow your case - unless your “retaliation” involves bringing them a six-pack of good beer and making an effort to be friendly. And then you get the extra bonus of being able to giggle about how easily manipulated they are.
For what it’s worth, I agree with this. Find a different way to deal with the original noise problem (you shouldn’t have to, but life involves compromise sometimes) and make friends with them. Believe me, I know how it feels to be assaulted by a neighbor’s noise. I got lucky and the offender moved away after a few months. Next time I’m going to do what Sigene suggests (without going to the police first, so I won’t need to apologize). No-one can win this kind of dispute against a neighbor who is already so lost to civilization that he inflicts loud noise on his neighbors.
Broken glass and bio-trash (tampons and condoms) definitely do rise to that level. Criminal littering isn’t that far from criminal vandalism, and if it’s repeated, it’s very serious.
I was born in Chicago. Do you want the long form birth certificate, or will the short form suffice? :dubious:
As recently as 2013, the average police response time in Detroit was 58 minutes for emergency calls. Some neighbor walking by your house is not an emergency, under any circumstance.
A lot of good advice here, I suppose by winning that I simply meant that in the end I would become victorious through either successfully pinning them legally for their continuing acts, intimidated them in a fashion that discouraged them from continuing, or followed the saying “Living well is the best revenge,” to such an extent that they realized their endeavors weren’t just futile but possibly enriched my life.
My surrounding neighbors are very good people, they are the type of people that would do the things you describe, the thing is regarding them witnessing any of these acts taking place is really all by chance. I have informed by closest neighbors of the situation as they were alerted to the glass throwing since it was noticeable throughout the block.
It’s true that the police really require such a degree of proof that not only will they act on it but actually be able to cite them for their misbehavior. The same applies for a court to actually dish out a harsh enough punishment that it simply isn’t possible for them to keep going without severe legal ramifications. I’ve seen retaliation go both ways on more than one occasion, my friends in high school got into a feud with another group which led to a huge back and forth with many peoples cars and property being damaged, egos wouldn’t let one side get away with an act and only time + distance ended up really calming things down. On the other hand I’ve seen one person be the victim of retaliation then retaliate themselves and the perpetrator realized they couldn’t commit an act of vandalism without getting hit themselves so they just stopped due to risk. Moving was something I am aware is an option for most people but it is not for me, it is unfortunate to think that someone would have to leave their home that they probably love due to the toxic behavior of another person.
Will take a look at those links there truly are some incredible things that people will do regarding neighborly disputes and just seeing that last one of someone actually taking someones life over such things really reinforces how emotionally invested people can become in them. Maybe it’s just the nature of humans to stoop to such levels?
A restraining order can only be obtained with adequate proof of this individual being the clear culprit behind these acts. I’m certainly prepared to collect that proof when it presents itself.
Again it’s very sad to hear when people find that moving is their only option, I can see it as being the easier option but no one should have to give up their home because of someone else’s bad behavior. The police could certainly do things that would alter their behavior but it would require them to have enough evidence to enforce such justice. If the individual decided to vandalize my property and was clearly witnessed by a neighbor, cctv system, or by myself personally restraining them in the act then they would be charged with vandalism penal code 594 PC with penalties ranging from 1-3 years in jail and fines ranging from $1,000-$10,000 depending on the damage. Justin Bieber for example was facing California felony vandalism charges but ended up getting misdemeanor vandalism for throwing those eggs at his neighbors house, which is still a serious punishment. Any of these penalties would likely be more than enough to prevent someone from continuing these activities.
On the terms of not playing the game to win I can see that being true, that would follow along the lines of living well is the best revenge which is probably the best option, it’s just not an immediate outcome but would require strong discipline and a will to get past the tide.
Seems common place these days for bad neighbors to try and deface anothers property. Wonder what that woman thought she was gaining by killing off some trees, trying to lower the value of your home? Glad to hear you went about re planting them creatively.
As I stated I didn’t resort to the police initially and don’t think it’s the right course of action either. What should be done, which is what I did, is to either personally/anonymously contact the homeowner and try to resolve it, if that fails then you’re pretty much forced to contact the authorities as your personal efforts are being disregarded. Any reasonable officer is going to deal with the situation by the book unless they have a reason not to and you’re right about them wanting to be involved over neighbors fighting it out.
While true it could somewhat escalate their actions if the cops were called, this would mostly apply if the police were unable to effectively pin the culprits for their actions. This comes down to knowing the right time to call the police.
I’m sorry to hear you had to move due to bad neighbors, it’s a shame that moving is sometimes the best option and I feel that this is due to a failure of our current developed civilizations stance towards excessive noise in neighborhoods.
This is a great idea as it’s very concealable and only records when something is happening, would actually consider this over a cctv system.
You’re absolutely correct that vandalism is a crime and the contacting of police is appropriate for such misdeeds. To not contact them is the wrong choice to make because now your not creating a paper trail to use if future vandalism occurs.
Littering is most certainly a crime in most states and carries hefty fines. When someone is leaving used tampons and condoms that actually turns into a bio hazard, there’s kids that play on my street, what happens when they pick that stuff up and somehow get contact with it if these individuals had sexually transmitted diseases? The kill them with kindness route is something I feel isn’t just inappropriate to use against a toxic neighbor but is ineffective. You should start out being kind when you politely request that their excessive noise situation be addressed, if they take no action then that shows kindness has little effect on that type of personality.
This. Fines for littering are quite serious, it’s just that unless you’re chucking trash from your window in front of a cop it’s difficult to prove who left it.