The Crimson Glyph (Werewolf/Mafia/Psychopath)

[paulwhoisaghost]

@Meeko

Ok Paul,

What do you think about Bear Neno and Inner Stickler then?

Sigh Okay Meeko… I will now go reread on those two players… how about you state your opinion on someone other than Peeker? Like I said… we KNOW you are town and can trust that your opinion has no hidden agenda.

[paulwhoisaghost]

Ok… I have something to report on Bear_Nenno…

He’s in this game? I mean… he’s on the player list… apparently he subbed in at some point… but he hasn’t been around since before Paul2.0… and I haven’t actually located any of his posts so far… I have a feeling that if I don’t survive as Paul 3.0 I may be subbing in yet again as a Bear_whoisaghost…

[AllWalker]

@Meeko

Ok Paul,

What do you think about Bear Neno and Inner Stickler then?

I know you didn’t ask me, but still…

Of these two, Bear is the far scummiest. In 10 posts, he says nothing. NOT a goshdarn THING. Except in post #404, where he rehashes an excuse for voting for SpurGe.

If he doesn’t have time to play, why does he have time to make fluff posts? He seems to be reading the thread, at least casually. Examining one player might take 10 minutes, but doing that once a week would eclipse his contributions.

**Unvote Peeks

[color=blue]Vote Bear_Nenno**

According to post #1423, Bear is still active. At least officially.

[AllWalker]

Gah, that is why you preview.

** Unvote peeker

Vote Bear_Nenno**

[paulwhoisaghost]

Wall of Words on IS coming up in a little while.

[Inner_Stickler]

I’m all ears.

[AllWalker]

@Inner_Stickler

I’m all ears.

Maybe you want to be speaking more, rather than just listening.

[Inner_Stickler]

Cranky, are we?

I’d like to say that Bear is pinging me but he hasn’t posted enough and I keep WIFOMing myself in circles about him. BillMC is on the low end as well which seems a bit odd to me but that’s getting metagamey and I don’t trust myself well enough to go that route.

[Chronos]

Presumably, after paul posts his analysis, Stickler will have something to say in response to it.

As for Bear_Nenno, his last post in this thread (even just fluff) was over a week ago. If he’s just plain not playing, then lynching him serves no purpose. On the other hand, unlike BillMC, he hasn’t given any explanation for his scarcity, and he is participating on the message board (last activity around noon today, as of right now), so maybe he is actually lurking. Man, by the fourth day, we really ought to be past “Lynch the Lurker”.

Oh, and to make things even worse, his predecessor, Justin Credible, didn’t have any content to analyze, either. One post to sign up, one post to confirm the start of game, one post to say that he’ll say something later, and then one post to request a sub.

[Chronos]

Ah, to heck with it. Until we see if he’s going to offer any sort of explanation, I’m going to
Unvote peeker
Vote Bear_Nenno

[Meeko]

@Chronos

As for Bear_Nenno, his last post in this thread (even just fluff) was over a week ago. If he’s just plain not playing, then lynching him serves no purpose.

We had a discourse on doing this with BillMC, correct?

BillMC ended up with a bought vote, and sinfection.

I am still thinking that this double whammy was orchestrated.

Do you think, if we ignore Nenno, the same thing will happen?

WIFOM

It is from the fact that the Sinners (apparently) double whammied Bill, that they can not, therefore NK.

The sinners are doing all they can to take off the low hanging here. And we feed them every day with our voting.
What happens if NO ONE votes?

[Meeko]

@Chronos

Man, by the fourth day, we really ought to be past “Lynch the Lurker”.

Oh, and to make things even worse, his predecessor, Justin Credible, didn’t have any content to analyze, either. One post to sign up, one post to confirm the start of game, one post to say that he’ll say something later, and then one post to request a sub.

But, you know, I Thought we all agreed that Meeko was the one breaking this game.
When can we all agree that this game has a high level of Subs, and that I am simply a strictly better player at Mafia than you guys would like to admit?

And given how Peeker has turned out, I would say I am playing HIS game better than he is.

[paulwhoisaghost]

31 posts… not a whole lot considering we are on Day 4… This is Day 4 right? Day 1 no bought vote. Day 2 Paul1.0, Day 3 Mahaloth, Day 4 Paul3.0 yep… Day 4… okay…

Here we go

IS

@Inner_Stickler

Hiya! Off to reread the thread for comprehension now!

Blah
2.

@Inner_Stickler

@Meeko

I believe paul asked me if I was ensinned. I am not. We have one player who pasted a pm after they became ensinned, and we are simply debating at this point if a second ensinned player currently exists.

I see no reason to believe there are two sinfected townies. The only mechanisms to sinfect someone is via execution, we’ve lost that and didn’t use it last time anyway, and the Sinners night action.

This… and several further posts show a complete lack of understanding for the sin mechanic of the game. Due to this I doubt IS is a Sinner. That or he is and is laying on the ignorance really thick on purpose.
3.

@Inner_Stickler

@special_ed

Meeko, what is this talk of double turns, etc? This is not a turn based games. Many things can be happening concurrently. Some things may benefit one side or another, some amy benefit 2 sides, some may have no impact.

Earlier, he determined how different lynchings affected the three different factions. Some, like executing a townie gives the Sinners a chance to infect someone, the last voter for execute gets sinfected and the town is down one player. He calls this the Sinners moving twice because they get two more sinners because of one action. However, we’ve lost the opportunity to execute now, so it’s mostly moot.

Again not understanding how Sin works.
4.

@Inner_Stickler

@Rysto

Now, earlier I opined that whoever the Sinners try to recruit should claim because it didn’t give the Sinners any information that they don’t already have. However, in light of the fact that the Sinners don’t know who each other are or even how many Sinners there are, this may not have been the best advice. Now the Sinners know that they’ve probably failed to recruit Angel(not your fault, Angel – everybody was saying that it was a good idea to claim). I’m not sure if it’s of more value for us to have an idea who the Sinners are trying to recruit and whether they’re successful or not, or to have the Sinners in the dark.

When did we learn that the Sinners don’t know who the other Sinners are? How would they make their night action choice without knowing? I don’t really see why having whoever was sinfected claim was a good idea in the first place anyway.

Skimming… and further not understanding sin.
5.

@Inner_Stickler

@Mahaloth

Either I closed without submitting or it got lost, but I just asked about Nanook(though I don’t see the post now).

Should we sub or lynch him? He has not played in a week. If he’s scum, he’s sliding by with a complete free pass. In fact, I’m not totally sure it isn’t a tactic of his. Just sit there and say nothing and avoid all attention.

Thoughts?

Generally I am opposed to lynching the lurker. However, his one post in the game struck me as relatively scummy. He’s against the informal no editing rule and he jumped onto the Spurious bandwagon and then left the thread completely.

Opposed to LTL because you planned on employing the strategy later on? Where have you been IS?
6.

@Inner_Stickler

Well, the only thing remotely close to insightful that he’s posted this time around is that it can be a bad idea to lynch the talkers especially on Day 1.

He’s still talking about Nanook here. Not sure what he expected on Day 1. Kinda interesting that he comments on what little insight Nanook provided when all he had provided himself was confusion about sin and a willingness to lynch Nanook.
7.

@Inner_Stickler

Can we see this direct knowledge from Pede? I didn’t see anything in the game that led me to that conclusion.

See the quote from Paul1.0 included in IS’s 8th post. I feel the same way Paul…
8.

@Inner_Stickler

@paulwhoisaghost

:smack: Really I said I received the direct knowledge from Pede… of course it isn’t posted in the main thread… and no… I won’t share it with everyone yet because there is no need to put out that particular info. It benefits Sinner and Blackheart more than town. So either believe me or don’t. But if you don’t, be prepared to look like an ass later.

I’m used to looking like an idiot. But I’m not the one with a magic bag.

[color=blue]Vote paulwhoisaghost[/colo]

We’ve discussed this whole issue quite a bit… and it isn’t gonna do us any good in this game. Paul1.0 made a decision about how to play his role. Disagree with that decision if you like, it won’t have any effect on the game now. Still… given the context, I think the vote placed by IS at this point is a little jumpy. Perhaps he thought that Paul1.0 had some kind of investigative role that might be dangerous to the Blackhearts? I would hope most of the town would be willing to take what info Paul1.0 was handing out with a grain of salt until proven true or false by some other means.
9.

@Inner_Stickler

Mahaloth is wrong. We can only ostracize. Not execute. Seeds of Sin can only be planted by the Sinners’ night action now.

Again… wrong about the sin mechanic.
10.

@Inner_Stickler

[color=green]Are we now performing vanilla lynches? Or Ostracizing people?[/colo]

Question to the mod… nothing interesting.
11.

@Inner_Stickler

@Freudian_Slit

Um, no, wouldn’t a scum want to make every effort to keep up with the conversation? How is it possibly a scum tell? And if I were a scum, I wouldn’t admit to doing that. It’s just that this game goes super fast, especially in the early days. :rolleyes:

Stop. Scum would do this or scum wouldn’t do that are not useful metrics. You start thinking like that and you WIFOM yourself into a tailspin and make mistakes. It’s all about motivations. What would a blackheart vs a sinner vs a townie have to gain from skimming the thread?

Seemingly helpful but not really saying anything about the game at hand… a scum tactic I personally employ…
12.

@Inner_Stickler

@paulwhoisaghost

You are wrong IS… there are other ways to plant the seed of sin… Why haven’t you picked that up yet? What would I have to gain by telling you so if it weren’t true?

I. Don’t. Know. That. And I don’t have any reason to trust that you’re not trying to lead us down the primrose path.

Very good attempt to cast Paul1.0 in disfavor with the town. It would be one thing to be wary of Paul1.0, another to take it a step further and say he is lying and has scummy intentions.
13.

@Inner_Stickler

@Freudian_Slit

I don’t think anyone has anything to gain from not reading the thread. So let’s just let this talk of “scum tells” go, okay? I agree with Inner Stickler.

Wait, what? I’m agreeing with Special Ed. The definition of a scum tell is something that seems anti-town. That can change from game to game and not modifying your playing style when it got you mislynched is ridiculous.

Again seeming slightly helpful without saying anything useful about the game in progress.
14.

@Inner_Stickler

Because we don’t know if you’re spreading information or misinformation. I’m a little surprised at you. You’ve got a magic bag and you’re soft claiming? I seem to recall you not liking it when others do that.

Paul1.0’s opinion on the matter is very similar to mine. It’s all about the context. But yet another excellent smudge on someone who has since been proven town.
15.

@Inner_Stickler

I think paul is saying that the Sinners try to recruit someone to their side every night and that’s what happened to Angel. Those are the only ones to become Sinners. If that person accepts, they become a Sinner and can join their discussions and stuff. I think he’s also saying that some people receive the Seed of Sin and become Impure townies. They still win with the town but they’re not pure. I don’t really understand where he gets that from though.

Ummm… I interpreted what Paul1.0 to say was that there were multiple ways to receive the seed of sin and when someone did they were given a choice between taking the sinner wincon or keep the town one and praying. I dunno how he came to the conclusion that Paul1.0 thought Angel had been ensinned by the sinners. Especially not after Paul1.0 stressed that he knew how someone was ensinned and that it was likely more than one person total.
16.

@Inner_Stickler

@paulwhoisaghost

Like I said you CAN have the Seed of Sin and have the town wincon. You are given the choice to either convert or pray. I offer a third choice… I can purge the seed of sin from someone… yes it comes at a cost… but it seems like everything in this game does.

So you’re saying that if someone receives the Seed via some means other than the Sinner’s night action, they have to agree to convert and then they become a Sinner?

Further ignorance of sin.
17.

@Inner_Stickler

@Meeko

Inner Stickler:

Let’s follow this rabbit hole some more.

Who would you want Meeko to vote for, Inner Stickler?

I want Meeko to use his powers of observation and deduction to vote for someone he thinks is purposefully hindering town. And explain why so the rest of us may evaluate your case and possibly join you. As for me, as odd as paul has been acting, I try to avoid lynching power roles and despite the fact that paul’s claimed role is not as confirmable as some other more usual town roles, I will withdraw my vote.

[color=red]Unvote Paul[/colo]

Apparently Paul1.0 wasn’t picking up enough steam to make for a good hiding spot for his vote.
18.

@Inner_Stickler

Meeko, did you have a reason for voting for Nanook, or are you just jumping on any and all bandwagons that cross your path?

Funny… a bit upthread I thought he was for a Nanook lynch. Now that it’s popular and he missed the chance to get onboard without being called out for bandwagoning he is going to call others out instead?
19.

@Inner_Stickler

I’m saying it’s considered polite to explain your voting choice. Did Nanook do something you thought was scummy? Do you find the idea of lynching a lurker attractive? Are you hoping that if the lynch goes awry, Allwalker will take the heat and you can slip under the radar? The Town needs information. The more open and forthright you are, the more transparent your actions and thought process, (and this goes for everyone, not just you, Meeko) the better chance we have of the town winning.

Helpful to town… without taking a stance on Meeko or Nanook. Again… helpful but impartial… scum tactic.
20.

@Inner_Stickler

You think someone is scummy but you’re going to wait through a lynch and a Night before you tell us who it is?! Please tell me I’ve misinterpreted.

Ummm… not sure lemme go see what this is in context to.

Ok… it was in response to Meeko saying “I have ideas, but frankly, I think Paul did the damage himself, and thus, also to having votes go elsewhere early on here. IS, I do intend to put up a case for someone, but I am not going to do it Today.” The first sentence of which makes no sense as it is written. The second half of which makes sense only if you are thinking from the perspective of someone who doesn’t want to weaken their current case against someone… but Meeko had no case against anyone…

This post by IS when isolated from further events actually looks helpful and insightful to finding scum… too bad we now know that Meeko is town. In that light I can see this as IS seeing an opportunity to smudge a townie.
21.

@Inner_Stickler

So theres more than you two? And they’re town-aligned with their own thread? My head hurts. It sounds like busybodies are this game’s version of masons.

Blah blah blah… state the obvious…
22.

@Inner_Stickler

Stop. Leave any priests that are out there alone. Assume that we have none and plan accordingly. If there is one, great. If not, well, we’ll figure something out. The last thing we want to do is direct the scum’s attention toward any town power roles. They tend to figure those things out quickly enough without our help.

Actually… I prefer to direct the scums attention at power roles… well… as long as it is one specific power role… that way we know who they are probably going to target for NK. Even better if that power role is also seemingly under town suspicion because then the scum don’t think the doc will protect them… but that JUST GIVES THE DOC ALL THE MORE REASON TO PROTECT SAID POWER ROLE.
23.

@Inner_Stickler

@Meeko

I doubt this.

They would need our help, in some measure, at some point.

So why are you trying to give it to them by fishing for other power roles?

I agree with IS here. Bringing a single power role to the scum’s attention is one thing… outing multiple is another.
24.

@Inner_Stickler

It tells all the vanilla townies to be wary of lynching you guys and anyone else you confirm as busybodies. And if one of you gets NKed and the role is confirmed, we reduce our pool of possible lynches.

Helpful and accurate… although Meeko still thinks no one believes he is town… even though we have said multiple times that Ed’s death proved he is. :rolleyes:
25.

@Inner_Stickler

If by Day 2 or 3 there was a group of 4 or 5 players who hadn’t said anything at all, Town would lynch them. It’s when there’s only one or two players that are hanging back and not participating that it becomes difficult to judge scum vs. town. And it is impossible for anyone who is vanilla town to reveal too much information because they have none. They’re sandbags that should get tossed in front of the blackhearts to buy the power roles time to get information. Nilla towns who don’t post are playing poorly.

I whole heartily disagree here. A nilla can make himself a good sacrifice to for keeping power roles alive… and yes to do that they need to be vocal enough to stand out to the scum and also find ways to hint at being more important than vanilla without actually claiming anything and throwing off town… but power roles don’t win the game. They are handy, but not necessary.
26.

@Inner_Stickler

You and me both, ed. Note to self: do not join 4 mafia games during finals week.

Blah…
27.

@Inner_Stickler

@Joey_P

That makes sense. Is a third party going to verify this or is it going to be an honor system? Come to think of it, if everything goes as planned, it would basically make them masons, sorta.

OTOH, we still haven’t completely ruled out Paul being scum. It unlikely, yes but giving scum the ability to desinfect would almost make them like an alpha scum. Yeah, I know I know, an investigator would still come up with scum (if he is) but he’s using his power power to ‘prove’ he’s town.

The only way to rule out people being scum is by death, which is how we knew about Telcontar and Spurious George or through mason-type links. Special Ed and Meeko have claimed to be busybodies and town aligned. If we lynch one or if one gets NK’ed and the mod role reveal verifies their claim, then the other is verified as is anyone else that they claim as a busybody.

Now, the paul and angel discussion has been discussed earlier. If he reports back tomorrow that he dis-sinfected Angel and Angel claims to still be sinfected then we lynch paul. If paul turns up town, the next day we lynch Angel. If he reports that he dis-sinfected Angel and Angel agrees, then they’re either both scum, or town, most likely.

well… that was accurate… too bad it assumed I would be alive the next morning… something IS may have seen coming?
28.

@Inner_Stickler

@Thing_Fish

Otherwise…well, we still have lots of lurkers to choose from. Five of our fifteen living players didn’t bother to vote Yesterday! It is a miracle we managed to find scum with that many abstainers, and I can almost guarantee we won’t get that lucky again. Although** Nanook, JoeyP, Bear Nenno, and Inner Stickler** all deserve piercing glares and watered-down moonshine, I think BillMC deserves special mention for being the only player not to vote on either Day, and he will probably be my default choice if nothing else interesting happens Tomorrow.

I’m really sorry about that. Voting is crucial to this game and I failed at that most basic task. I thought I had more time than I did.

I dunno about the validity of his statement… but he did say he had finals… still… vote early vote often… if you are town you have nothing to hide by placing a vote that reflects your suspicions.
29.

@Inner_Stickler

I was sinfected last Night, Chronos, so you may want to revise your conclusions. Or not it’s up to you. I chose to pray, if you’re wondering.

I believe him… like I said… I’m sure he isn’t a Sinner… funny thinking a Blackheart would be praying though… can they switch their wincon? I thought only town could… doesn’t really matter I’m sure IS would say he chose to pray either way… it does make him sound more town.
30.

@Inner_Stickler

[color=blue]Vote Peekercpa[/colo]

It’s not really for anything Peekercpa did but more how Freudian Slit was acting. She didn’t seem to want to participate.

A lot of people didn’t seem to want to participate. Bear_Nenno comes to mind. BillMC too… but IS chose to vote for the person being subbed in? When someone is subbed it is usually because the person had a reason for nonparticipation… not because they are scum lurking.
31.

@Inner_Stickler

@Chronos

Quoth Inner Stickler:I just noticed this… Of course she didn’t want to participate; she asked for a sub, didn’t she?

Before she asked for a sub. Maybe the level of participation made her want out or something but the posts she made were antagonistic and not helpful from a townie point of view.

What you are saying are one and the same probably… the level of “participation” probably overwhelmed and frustrated her… that’s why her posts seemed antagonistic. At least… that’s how I see it.

So… over all what did I get from this? That I am almost positive IS is not Sinner… and that I think he is more likely scum than Town… want a good vote for toDay? Vote for IS… Peeker is… well… Peeker… but that doesn’t mean he is scummy… I can’t see his predecessor subbing out for not being able to keep up if she was scum… it is a whole lot less important for scum to keep up in the thread. And LTL is a bad idea this late in the game. Let Pede modkill or sub out Bear_Nenno… I relish the opportunity to sub into a game 4 times

[paulwhoisaghost]

@Inner_Stickler

Cranky, are we?

I’d like to say that Bear is pinging me but he hasn’t posted enough and I keep WIFOMing myself in circles about him. BillMC is on the low end as well which seems a bit odd to me but that’s getting metagamey and I don’t trust myself well enough to go that route.

:dubious: I replaced BillMc…

and good to say you… I take back my question about you not being around…

[paulwhoisaghost]

Also… funny that the two people pinging you are/were lurkers… easy to take a stance against them…

[paulwhoisaghost]

@Chronos

As for Bear_Nenno, his last post in this thread (even just fluff) was over a week ago. If he’s just plain not playing, then lynching him serves no purpose. On the other hand, unlike BillMC, he hasn’t given any explanation for his scarcity, and he is participating on the message board (last activity around noon today, as of right now), so maybe he is actually lurking. Man, by the fourth day, we really ought to be past “Lynch the Lurker”.

I think I know what is going on with Bear_Nenno…I’ve been in a situation before where I fell behind on a game, and the idea of rereading was daunting… so instead I kept telling myself I would have more time to reread later… and eventually I got modkilled… all the while I was participating in other discussions on the same site.

So like I said… let Pede deal with him… LTL on Day 4 is a bad idea…

[paulwhoisaghost]

@Meeko

But, you know, I Thought we all agreed that Meeko was the one breaking this game.
When can we all agree that this game has a high level of Subs, and that I am simply a strictly better player at Mafia than you guys would like to admit?

And given how Peeker has turned out, I would say I am playing HIS game better than he is.

This is both arrogant and false… you have not displayed any great display of mafia genius… you haven’t even proven that you can out Peek Peeker… he is being incredibly lucid in this game… usually I can’t make heads or tails of what he is saying and need Ed or someone else to interpret.

Further more… your post above the one I quoted shows you continuing to think that the Sinners are the ones buying votes… yet the first bought vote CAUSED a Sinner to be lynched… and the second bought vote CAUSED someone who converted to the Sinner wincon to be lynched. This third bought vote is on me… and I was ensinned… meaning that at the time the actions were placed, they didn’t know if I would choose their wincon or not… but since it was an option, than there is a chance that I have their best interest at heart and buying my vote would be a poor use of the power…

I think it far more likely that the person buying the votes in town. Buying BillMC’s vote would allow the politician to put their power to good use without inhibiting town since Bill hadn’t been there to vote the last two days.

Anyway… you’re getting too big for your britches Meeko… this is your first game and you still are trying to make it more complex than it is… even after we have a better grasp on the rules, you continue to ask off the wall questions and ignore the logic that disproves things that you won’t let go off… i.e. the Sinner’s having the vote buying power.

[Meeko]

@paulwhoisaghost

Anyway… you’re getting too big for your britches Meeko… this is your first game and you still are trying to make it more complex than it is… even after we have a better grasp on the rules, you continue to ask off the wall questions and ignore the logic that disproves things that you won’t let go off… i.e. the Sinner’s having the vote buying power.

If Peeker is being more coherent than usual, he is, by definition, not being ““peeker”” correct?

I honestly don’t see how we are that equal. I would guess, that Peeker at all times in mafia is TRYING to be obscure. He probably picks a ground set of rules for himself, and stakes his claim on that corner of the metagame, and dances all around it.

Sad circumstance for me, people natuarally don’t get what I mean to say. This could be for any reason, and I would suggest, it is often more than one reason simultaneously. I come off as obscure just by breathing.

Either I am more Peeker than Peeker is, OR, I am not like Peeker at all.

The only way to crack this game open, is to play out a WIFOM moment.

WIFOM,

Sinners could be systematically offing themselves.

You speak of logic, yet, I think none of us know as much as we should this late in the game. I find it hard to digest, that given how complicated this game is, you assert that you are automatically that far ahead of me, based on previous games.

What, exactly, is wrong with making this game more complex than it is? If I am doing that, shouldn’t I have this game solved by now?

And again, what would be wrong with that?

[Meeko]

Can a player chose not to use a night power?

[paulwhoisaghost]

sigh maybe after a few more games you’ll come back to this game and figure it out Meeko… but right now… I give up.

On Peeker… he doesn’t try to be obscure… he has a certain post style that seemingly comes natural to him… this game he seems to be making a genuine effort to take that down a notch in an effort to keep the game understandable. You on the other hand make an effort to distract and confuse… I can’t see how posting in ROT 13 can be seen any other way… if people naturally have difficulty understanding you… then maybe you should try not throwing even more obstacles in the way they have to overcome?