I don’t hate Tom, John, Isaac, and Jenna. I just think it’s too bad they’re deluded. I suppose they pity us (what do they call us, muggles?) outsiders.
Jenna? GeeDub’s daughter? You know, that might explain a lot…
As fun as it might be were that the case, I’m pretty sure AskNott was referring to the niece of the great composer, Danny Elfman.
This is actually somewhat serious.
Why does anyone care about Scientology? Do they knock on your doors trying to get you to donate money? Do they impact your daily lives?
Who cares, really? Everyone talks about them as a cult, but I don’t personally know one person who is a Scientologist.
If it is indeed something made up by L. Ron Hubbard, good for him. And if it gets people through the day, good for them too.
I just don’t get it. One person’s religion is another person’s fantasy.
PEOPLE HAVE DIED. People have had their life savings wiped out. People have been estranged from friends and family.
Who gives a shit if nobody YOU know is a $cieno? I don’t know anyone who’s been killed in Iraq. Does that mean I shouldn’t care about the war?
If you read (or watch) some of these links, you’d understand. Since you can’t be bothered, you’re looking like an apologist for a DANGEROUS cult. You just got on my radar as a very very lazy person.
Read before you look like a fool again: http://www.xenu.net
I’m on your radar!?! Cool!
Not an apologist, just someone who doesn’t get into a twist about religion.
Looking like a fool? I haven’t lost any money to them. People lose their savings? Free will and all that.
Lives? Hell, I don’t know. What about those people that wanted to attach themselves to the mothership coming with the comet? Whatever works for you, man.
Just because I don’t read pages and pages about Scientology doesn’t mean I’m lazy. I might not care, but I’m not lazy.
And for the record, everytime I see your user name, I want to scream Snicklefritz! (Stalag 17 joke. Sorry).
Please. Put me on your “ignore” list. Go on to your regularly scheduled Scientology bashing.
Fucking $cieno. Hope you get your brains back someday.
Yep, those emotionally vulnerable people who get lured into the CoS deserve whatever fleecing they get. If they were born stupid or gullible, it’s their own fault. We have no obligation to protect them.
Just like those Enron employees who lost their life savings. Serves 'em right. Free will and all that.
[/sarcasm]
He says they were misdemeanors and the paper couldn’t be assed to check into it. The paper should have researched if the ‘Cleaveland Street Saftey Leagues’ claims held water. They probably don’t, but the paper should have checked.
Its the starkness of it all, the brutal mechanics of deceit, of a manufactured device without dignity, without wonder, a religion for atheists. It is to religion as a robot is to a baby.
Much is made of it being invented by a science fiction writer, but that doesn’t quite say it. Its the invention of a third-rate science fiction writer. When penny-a-word hacks won’t let you sit at their lunch table, its like being voted off the island by a leper colony. John Cambell once offered him money to stop writing, Phillip Jose Farmer once kicked his ass in a bar in Encino. True story.
Oh, come on. With what religron has this NOT happened?
I’m not an expert on this, but it seems most major faiths todays started out aa a separatist cult, plenty of them have bloody and rather shameful episodes they would love to wipe out of peoples’ minds.
Oh, come on now. I’m not a Scientologist (or anything else for that matter).
And yes, I’ve lost money in the stock market too. That IS free will. It sucks that a mutual fund had Enron stock, but them’s the breaks. I don’t see anyone giving me any of my money back. I get the “too bad! Investing is risky!”
Gullibility comes in a lot of forms. I’m not saying that cults don’t exist. But what defines a cult? Some people think Catholics are a cult. And I’ve heard stories of pedophilia priests being moved around the country and the church covering it up. I’ve also heard they used money given to them by their followers to hire lawyers and/or buy off the victims of these crimes.
I’ve also heard this is all been blown out of proportion. What’s true?
If you need to be on a crusade to stop Scientology, be my guest. I’m not going to get in your way. But let’s not get silly.
If people are sucked into Scientology, then by your definition they are Emotionally Vulnerable. Well, where is the Emotionally Vulnerable Police? If people find comfort in buying crap off of eBay that’s ok, but if they give their money to a “church” that you define as a “cult”, it’s not ok? How do you propose to protect the huddled masses, longing for a connection to the afterlife, or to other people, or to whatever?
If you decide that you want to be Jewish, because your neighbors are Jewish, and you feel like a part of their community, and you take classes and are accepted as a part of the Jewish community, can you give your local synagogue some cash? How much? What if you want to give them more than you can afford because you want to? Anyone going to stop you?
You can’t always protect people from themselves. Even if your intentions are good.
Snicklefritz!
I’m curious, Constipated, at what you invision to be the “cutoff point” beyond which it’s proper to be concerned about the predatory or out-right dangerous activities of other people. Should scam artists in general not be held accountable for their actions, because their marks “should have known better” than to fall for their schemes? Should Enron be punished at all? Your remarks seem to indicate that you think they should not: that massive financial swindles fall under “Too bad! Investing is risky!”
You try to compare the Scientologists to the Catholic church, but your comparison doesn’t really prove anything. You toss out “Some people think Catholics are a cult,” like it means something. So what? Some people think Jews sacrifice Christian babies to make their Passover bread. There’s no idea to crazy or evil that someone doesn’t buy into it completely. If you want to argue that Scientology isn’t a cult, provide some evidence that it is not a cult. If you want to argue that Catholicism is also a cult, provide the same. If you’re just going to toss around bullshit hypotheticals that you’re too lazy to support and then act like you’ve proven some sort of point, just do us all a favor and piss off.
Good questions, Miller. I’ll address them the best I can. Of course I don’t believe the scam artists of this world should get a free pass. What happened at Enron was tragic on many levels (not the least of which the death of Kenneth Lay before he spent a day in jail). They should all be punished for perpetuating a fraud on their investors. But where does this stop? What about the brokers that knew this stock was going down the tubes and sold before the bottom fell out? What about the large brokerage houses that got out before the bottom fell? How many people are privvy to inside knowledge that the average Joe doesn’t even get a whiff of? Should they all get punished? I think so. But they don’t. Martha Stewart is a good example of this. She got what she deserved. But by no means was she the only one that benefited by a little inside information. Very few people have the access to even have a chance to make a bad decision like Martha did. So as much as I was happy to see Martha get convicted, I was not happy that she wasn’t joined by a bunch of other people who probably have done the same things in their stock trading lives. My quick answer is I don’t know what the “cutoff point” is. It’s a great question, though.
I’m not here to argue that Scientology is not a cult. By the definitions in this thread, it certainly qualifies. And by my limited readings provided by the links **Equipoise ** posted (I have to admit, I haven’t read much. It gives me a headache, and I’m fascinated that anyone could read through all of that website). But by what definition do we judge a cult?
I’m also not here to argue that Catholicism is a cult. But some people believe that it qualifies, by definition.
I wasn’t even intending on comparing Catholicism (or Judaism) or any other religion to Scientology. I’m not even trying to prove any particular point, other than to say that if you are trying to save the world from Scientology, then you have a mission. Carry on.
But to say things like PEOPLE HAVE DIED is a bit much to prove a point, no? I’m sure they have. But have you caught a screening of Passion of the Christ? Because let me tell you, that poor guy got the **SHIT ** beat out of him before they crucified him.
Piss off? Why would that do you a favor? Because I’ve not agreed with the point that Scientology is evil? Hmmm. Just trying to have some discussion on a message board about the topic.
Being as I have no axe to grind in any of the houses of religion, I just don’t see the point in getting in a snit over one that you find particularly nasty. Cult, commune, Jonestown, or your neighborhood church. From someone who is a non-believer (and there seem to be many on this board), they can all seem a bit “cultish”, wouldn’t you agree?
Now if you want to kick the crap out of it because of Tom Cruise, I’m with you 100%!
Pardon me, let me rephrase.Fucking tool. Hope you get your heart back someday.
If someone had told you, over and over again, and if there’d been plenty of evidence on the web and in libraries to support it, that the company you were investing in was not only crooked, but run by the mob and that people have been wiped out (in more ways than one), you’d be pretty damned stupid if you’d invested anyway. Every anti-$cientology thread might actually do some good if it gets even one person to stop and think, or better yet, do some research, before they get involved with the cult.
Said by someone who hates doing the barest amount of research before chiming in with their rationalizations, because they “don’t care” but they care enough to jump into threads trying to defuse the criticism.
Sexual abuse in the Catholic church has NOT been “blown all out of porportion” (well, except in the minds of pedophiles).
We try to protect them by giving them more information, and trying to make them think for themselves. Some brave souls even try to hold the “church” (it’s NOT a religion) accountable for its actions.
Another problem is that the cult goes out of its way to harass, slander, and bully those who disagree with them.
They lie, steal, cheat, and on one particular occassion, were involved in one of the largest cases of domestic espionage in our country’s history, IIRC.
:dubious: And why the fuck not, dipshit?!
And why, you worthless sack of garbage, do you say that as if accounting an organization as a “church” or “religion” reflected well on it?!
(Still touchy about the Church of the SubGenius’ lack of tax-exempt status – which the Church of Elronhubbardism gets! :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: )