The cure to soulless crushing modern society is a life of narcissistic sociopathic hedonism (or why humans can't have nice things)

Most probably the sheer resistance of bureaucracies to having to make any exception to a rule. Think of a section of code in a program that works 99.99% of the time but when it doesn’t requires an IT specialist to manually change the setting of a flag, and then deal with the multiple follow-on side effects of bypassing the process. And changing the code would require rewriting and debugging the entire program, itself a process that has to follow an elaborate procedural checklist. At some point Mom just says “that’s the rules, no exceptions” rather than explain why a worthwhile exception shouldn’t be made.

I’m reminded of how to the greatest possible extent the Manhattan Project compartmentalized R&D, with entire divisions working on things like gastight fluorine-resistant plumbing while never being told what gastight fluorine-resistant plumbing was going to be put to use for.

Possibly, but my life got a lot better when I started making more money.

A big part of that is that I have affordable health care now due to good insurance. So I’ve been able to get health care that improves my depression which improves my quality of life quite a bit.

But also now that I have a financial cushion due to a much higher savings/investment rate so I know I can easily tolerate another layoff, or the fact that my retirement planning is going better than expected, or being able to buy gifts for people I like w/o worrying about spending $20 or $50 here and there has all improved my quality of life.

That’s a few degrees off from what I’m getting at, but you’re not wrong.

What I’m saying is that if you’re gainfully employed, happily married with good kids, good health, have top notch health insurance, and make a surplus of money such that you can afford to drop a couple of hundred bucks on something fun and frivolous without a second thought, you can still be profoundly dissatisfied with your lot in life for the reasons I’ve pointed out.

When you have no money, all you see is problems related to that. But once you get past that, it’s not all sunshine and roses simply because you can afford what you want and need to afford. Other things come into play- job autonomy, how fulfilling your job is, what impact your job makes, whether that impact is lasting, and so forth.

That was more or less the premise of the series “The Hardacres”, a sort of Victorian-era Beverly Hillbillies. A family of struggling lower class workers gets lucky and strikes it rich, then discovers the almost intolerable demands put on members of upper-class society.

You start to get into the concept of “golden handcuffs” or a “gilded cage”. You (general you) get used to the comfort and quality of life such that you are willing to or feel forced to work a job that you might dislike or not take risks that might lead to a life that’s actually more fulfilling. Eventually people get to a point where they are going through the motions of a life they don’t really want.

Then they fantasize about becoming a pirate or joining a fight club!

Is this it? That’s what it’s all about, Manny? Eating, drinking, fucking, sucking? Snorting? Then what? You’re 50. You got a bag for a belly. You got tits, you need a bra. They got hair on them. You got a liver, they got spots on it, and you’re eating this fucking shit, looking like these rich fucking mummies in here.

Tony Montana (Scarface) reflecting on his life at the height of his career as a drug kingpin.

You look terrible, Mr. Waturi. You look like a bag of shit stuffed in a cheap suit. Not that anyone could look good under these zombie lights. I, I, I, I can feel them sucking the juice out of my eyeball. Suck, suck, suck, SUCK…For 300 bucks a week, that’s the news. For 300 bucks a week, I’ve lived in this sink, this used rubber.
Joe Banks (Joe vs the Volcano) to his boss before quitting his job to go jump into a volcano.

I’m not in programming but I write grants and this is happening at my nonprofit now. It’s a bit bewildering and depressing after ten years of success and full autonomy to suddenly have my shit under a microscope and everything being quantified (quantified more than by actual revenue.) It makes me sick. I really don’t know if I’m going to be able to tolerate it. I’ve been talking about a long-term career change, maybe program development and evaluation or something similar. Or I might just take a part time job and no longer make work the center of my life. It’s very difficult to do full time when you have a kid with as many needs as my son.

Still I doubt any poor person would hesitate to trade with me. I’ve always been spoiled in terms of my career. People don’t adapt well to change, particularly when it’s negative change.

But thats to a degree a choice. I know you live in a VHCOL city and have a family to support. So your experience will be different from mine since I’m single and live in a MCOL city.

But as I earned more money, it mostly just meant that I was able to put much more into investments. My spending went up a bit, but most of my extra money goes into investments. This gives me a strong feeling of safety about my financial future, which does help my mental health. I could spend all the extra money I make now, but I choose not to and choose to invest it instead so I know I have more flexibility later in life.

That’s sort of the core of what I’m talking about, isn’t it?

Your job has changed due to the arbitrary needs and whims of The System. So now you have to perform that mental calculus of determining whether you can tolerate those changes more than you might tolerate a potential reduction of income or status.

There’s a quote by Viktor Frankl that addresses the difference in how problems are perceived.

“To draw an analogy: a man’s suffering is similar to the behavior of a gas. If a certain quantity of gas is pumped into an empty chamber, it will fill the chamber completely and evenly, no matter how big the chamber. Thus suffering completely fills the human soul and conscious mind, no matter whether the suffering is great or little. Therefore the “size” of human suffering is absolutely relative.”

Viktor E. Frankl

Even though someone’s problems and desires aren’t centered around basic necessities, doesn’t mean that they aren’t absolutely real and vital to those people. It’s a hard concept to grasp; it’s really easy to watch Real Housewives of Wherever and get frustrated because so many of their concerns and worries are so absurd by most people’s lights. But to them, they’re serious business.

I think the fantasy part is the operative thing here. Very few people really want to be in a fight club or physical fight at all. But it’s fun to fantasize about, just like there are all sorts of other things that are fun to fantasize about.

Post 71! Great minds! I love Frankl.

I thought I had seen that quote, but when I searched for “gas” in the page, I didn’t get it as a result, otherwise I wouldn’t have reposted it!

Did you search with Discourse’s search, or with your browser’s “find on page” feature? Always use Discourse’s, never “find on page”.

I interpret that expression a bit differently. If you haven’t filled your soul or mind with things of substance, the slightest bit of suffering is going to fill up the entire space and disproportionately preoccupy all your thoughts and feelings.

That’s why Real Housewives and other reality shows seem so crazy and absurd. Because these people are mostly empty shells completely focused on their own image and status. So every perceived slight is the end of the world.

I don’t think you’re wrong. In Man’s Search for Meaning there’s a part where Frankl is providing support to a man who had lost his job. He really took everyone’s suffering seriously. And the approach of logotherapy was always to help people find meaning in their suffering. That was the “thing of substance” in Frankl’s estimation - the sense you made out of your own hard life. When he counseled a man who had lost his wife, for example, the man eventually found meaning in the fact that he had survived his wife, therefore she didn’t have to suffer the pain of losing him.

Frankl is so quotable. This is encapsulated in my favorite quote of his: “What is to give light must endure burning.”

Many people including myself find meaning in creating art that has roots in our own suffering but that can help ease the pain of others going through similar things, at least so they don’t feel so alone.

I don’t know if you’ve read the book, or if you’re interested in that sort of thing, but when you’ve spoken of your troubles, I’ve often wished I could recommend it to you.

I really believe in his message. This message helped me survive some very hard times. My son’s name is in part a homage to Frankl.