The daycare just declared my 2.5-year-old kid to be autistic (long)

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
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[QUOTE=fessie]
spazurek you might enjoy reading Louise Bates Ames’ books on child development. There’s a volume for each year and they were originally published in the mid-1980s. Her approach to the range of normal behavior is so calm and reassuring, and specific.

I didn’t happen to purchase Your Two-Year Old so I can’t quote from it, but the behaviors you describe seem absolutely normal to me.

I’m sorry for your ordeal; I understand how painful and difficult this day has been. My twins just turned 4. Those half-year ages are hard enough without this tacked on.

I’ve met plenty of mothers online who fought to have their kids evaluated so that they could qualify for a variety of (subsidized or free) services from therapists. That’s really the reason for advocating early, to get those services started. But these women sensed that something was “off”. Some others have ignored hunches and been confronted by teachers in kindergarten/first grade who advised them that special services are in order. I’m amazed that that many kids could possibly vary from the “norm”, but hey, I’m no clinician.

If your son is interacting and enjoying daycare, I wouldn’t sweat it. I don’t blame you for wanting to change schools, although if he loves it maybe just let it ride? You could always lie and tell the daycare that your pediatrician isn’t worried (or just bring it up at your next well-baby appt).
Next year try a Montessori school and see how he does.

You also might want to videotape him playing, if you’re not already doing so just for fun. It could give you a helpful frame of reference should you ever want to be able to look back in time to see if there are any telltale clues (or, hey, if he happens to do something especially funny and cute, send it to America’s Funniest Videos and win yourselves $10k) (Oy, if only I’d had the camera running on certain occasions around here).

I understand your anguish, really. I have concerns about my kids but there was NO WAY I was going to put those down on the “describe your child” line on the preschool form. Why label? Why set up expectations?

Time will tell.
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Thank the gods for you, my friend. I was beginning to feel like a crazy old man.

And I think your idea of collecting some data on Andrew is terrific. I’d especially love to go observe him at daycare with his teachers there to point out his what they see as abnormal behaviors; it would require some way of solving the Heisenberg problem (my presence altering his behavior) like a 1-way window, but they have no such thing at the day care.

Your statement “Why label? Why set up expectations?” – that says it all.

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[QUOTE=spazurek]
<snip>
I had a moment of clarity while running just now: Whatever disease Andrew has, I adore him just exactly the way he is and any change in him or in how he is treated represents a loss to me. If, like Typo Knig, I ever find myself struggling to enjoy him, I’ll reconsider. But this is my prerogative as a parent: Andrew is exactly, precisely who I would want him to be.
[/QUOTE]

This isn’t about you.

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[QUOTE=Yag Rannavach]
No. I don’t think there is.

And who says that someone’s mental function is the most essential quality of a person?
[/QUOTE]
Hmm, well nice talking to you – we’re two different cognitive species, so no capacity for exchange of ideas, I’m afraid.

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[QUOTE=featherlou]
This isn’t about you.
[/QUOTE]
As long as Andrew has no capacity to speak his mind on the matter, I’m afraid it is. That’s the curse of parenthood.

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[QUOTE=spazurek]
I think we’re hitting a wall; I’ll just end up rehashing my previous statements. To sum up: I argue that ‘autism’=‘neurological disorder’=‘mental defect’, and therefore applying such a label would profoundly damage Andrew’s self-image. I see no way around that, but I appear to be a minority of one on that.

[/QUOTE]
Well, I guess I would say that autism=neurological difference=a kid who isn’t defective. Different =! defective. As you said. If you treat autism as a defect, that’s harmful. But you’ve had several stories on this thread that show that kids often react with relief when they realize that there’s a reason that they feel different, and it’s something they can deal with.

A family friend of ours is quite dyslexic. He sees most things differently from other folks. He also has several amazing talents that stem directly from the dyslexia. Without it, he wouldn’t be who he is, doing the unusual and cool things that he does. So is he defective? Or is he just a different kind of guy? I’ve known him my whole life, and I’ve never thought of him as defective; but I have a piece of his art on my wall and it’s one of my most prized possessions. (OK, actually it’s on top of the TV cabinet because the frame broke, but I’m going to get it fixed!)

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[QUOTE=spazurek]
Hmm, well nice talking to you – we’re two different cognitive species, so no capacity for exchange of ideas, I’m afraid.
[/QUOTE]

shrug we’re not exchanging ideas here anyway. You’re giving your position, and then continuing to argue your position. Then keeping on going, insisting that your way is the right way.

67

Okay I’m beat. I’m different, very very different, than most of you. For better or for worse, Andrew has me, not any of you, for a dad. I may screw him up bad. Or I may save him from a life of marginalization. It’s up to me. But unlike you guys, I actually have to do this. The stakes could not be higher, and it’s up to me to do what I think is the best thing, despite having only the vaguest notion of what that is. But I have to do my best, and so I will. I honestly do appreciate your interest, but I have to sign off, this is taking a lot out of me.

Thanks.

68

[QUOTE=spazurek]
I think we’re hitting a wall; I’ll just end up rehashing my previous statements. To sum up: I argue that ‘autism’=‘neurological disorder’=‘mental defect’, and therefore applying such a label would profoundly damage Andrew’s self-image. I see no way around that, but I appear to be a minority of one on that.

[/QUOTE]

Actually, I see precisely where you are coming from with this. My eldest son has asthma but is unaware that he has asthma, as we do not mention it around him, for the very reason you state. His case is very mild and I don’t want him thinking that he’s defective or unable to participate in strenuous activity. We just tell him that sometimes to help him breathe he might need to use an inhaler before sports or outdoor activity. He has so far apparently not twigged that not everybody uses an inhaler from time to time.

I think where others are coming from in this thread is that the possible effects of having undiagnosed and untreated autism are far more significant than the possible effects of being labeled with autism. However, I’ll agree that from my untrained and inexperienced perspective, based solely on what you’ve written here, your kid does sound pretty normal. I will second the recommendation for a Montessori preschool, incidentally; not because they’re good for autistic-leaning kids particularly, but because I just really like Montessori and think it’s a good fit for kids that can deal with more self-directed learning. YMMV, of course.

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[QUOTE=spazurek]
I’m not interested in useful. I’m interested in the damage done by defining my son’s mind as pathological. Increasing his function a bit is not worth him believing that his mind is defective.
[/QUOTE]
Like others, I’m not really clear what you’re trying to accomplish here. If he did legimatelly have a problem (and again, from your description of the symptoms, I’m not seeing it) then developing an appropriate pathology would allow you to seek treatment or define applicable expectations rather than just expecting him to be normal (whatever that is). This is what I mean by “useful”; that it allows him to function better in general society or ultimately achieve independence and self-determination. I would agree that a label that is inappropriately or inexpertly applied is going to result in treatment or expectations that are ultimately non-useful and perhaps harmful. The correct thing to do is to get a qualified professional–not a teacher with a basic child psychology course–to give you an objective assessment. As a parent, you can’t be objective, and certainly no one on a message board who has never met your child and has only your description to go on can offer anything remotely worthwhile as a diagnosis.

As for the damage wrought by “defining [your] son’s mind as pathological” and “him believing that his mind is defective”, that’s really up to you as a parent and role model as to how he accepts himself. No one is bereft of personality quirks, emotional issues, and behaviorial tics; whether you regard those as good or bad is (mostly) a matter of perception, not a moral value judgement on the goodness or wrongness of the individual, so long as those diversions from the norm don’t cause harm to someone else. Certainly conformity is not a virtue to be held in regard above all other qualities. But not addressing any real issues that exist isn’t doing him or anyone else any service.

You’re clearly not soliciting advice, but if you were I think most people are or would recommend that you get an objective qualified opinion on the mattter.

Stranger

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At the risk of sounding like an asshole, in my opinion autism is a ‘bad thing.’ I’m not an expert, so huge grain of salt, but it’s an impairment. From the Wiki: “Autism is a brain development disorder that impairs social interaction and communication, and causes restricted and repetitive behavior.” It’s not a matter of being different. I agree with you that everybody should be cherished for their differences, but not when those differences are damaging to the self or others. Manic-depressives are different, so should we just accept that also? Physically handicapped people are different also, but if there was a cure do you think they would turn it down because they think being handicapped is the bee’s knees? Perhaps, but I doubt it.

Even though autism is an impairment, it doesn’t make that person any better or worse for having it. There’s a difference between loving and accepting the person, and accepting the behavior or part of that person.

All of this is really a seperate issue on whether you should get the diagnosis or not. I think you should, because I don’t think your son is going to have a permanent mental scar from just the possibility of having a disorder. From your OP, it sounds like he’s fine and dandy, but, the teachers see something you don’t. You’re intelligent and awesome, but you are not there at the school in that environment. I know you feel you’re doing your child a disservice by going to get him checked, but I strongly disagree. In my opinion, your emotions and philosophy are putting your child at risk.

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[QUOTE=spazurek]
If he is having problems, I will seek a solution, including evaluation for autism if appropriate. He is not.
[/QUOTE]

Reading back over some posts I missed while posting, and reading between the lines, my conclusions are these:

  1. You desire to protect your child from stigmas etc. and want him to be able to grow up normally without labels and such.

  2. You’re a bit worried that there could be something to this.

Friend, we’re just trying to help. As I think you pointed out, most kids nowadays are being treated for this, that, or the other. It’s no reflection on you or your child IF anything is amiss…such is childhood, and nobody chooses to be autistic or ADD or anything else. It just happens sometimes, through nobody’s fault, and sometimes there are false alarms.

I have no issue with a “wait and see” attitude. God knows you could be running the kid to the pediatrician every time any little thing goes wrong. Every parent struggles (I guess—I don’t have kids) with when to push the panic button and when to chill. It’s clear you have your child’s best interests at heart and that’s the most important thing.

I think if you do decide to have him tested, he will “play” test with the therapist and be totally oblivious about what’s going on until and unless you inform him. Kids forget quickly and if you never mention it again, he may not remember it in the least a few months later. So I don’t think there’s any chance he’ll be stigmatized etc.

My only real question for you is whether you’re okay. If you’re worried—you don’t have to proclaim it in this forum or anything—and this is keeping you up nights, or if you’re obsessing over DSM-IV, etc., then I’d invite you to consider having him tested to put your mind at ease.

I was having vision problems a couple months ago…seeing things when I closed my eyes to sleep. I worried about it for about two weeks solid, then went to the doc, yadda…turned out it was stress-related. I haven’t had problems since. So I threw away two weeks of peace for nothing. But if it had been something, I could have taken steps.

Finally, you better pace yourself. My mom had me 45 years ago and she still worries daily.

Peace out.

72

I think that as kids get a little older, it’s easier for us parents to see them as flawed human beings. That’s why people love babies - they’re infinite, and thus perfect.

Two-and-a-half is still SO young, so indecipherable. I know my kids a zillion times better now than I did then. In many glorious ways, and also a few sad ones.

Eventually you ARE going to have to face your son’s limits. It’s clear that this issue of intellect has really pushed your buttons. And that’s a good thing, it’s a growth thing, for you.

73

Oddly, I understand what you’re fighting against here. You don’t want your kid labeled, and it sure seems like we’re labeling an awful lot of kids these days. I fight against it nearly every day. Not every oddity is a disorder.

I misread your OP and answered it to give you information about a potential evaluation. If you have no desire to seek one, then disregard my first post.

However (and there’s always a however in life :slight_smile: ), I have three more points before I let you go:

  1. Keep your eye on it, see if it progresses, morphs, or develops into something else.

  2. If you do decide down the road to get him evaluated, understand that if he meets criteria that is ok. A person diagnosed with an Autism Spectrum Disorder is not defective, just different. Receiving that label can be vastly beneficial. From as little as just having teachers understand that his/her behavior is because of this different way his/her mind works and not because he’s being a hellion, to a person receiving behavior therapy so they can achieve to their full potential.

  3. Realize that Autism Spectrum Disorders are on a spectrum. I think that when a lot of people hear Autism and get a picture in their mind of a kid that can’t communicate at all and bangs their head against a wall. Within the Spectrum there is Autism, Asperger’s, and Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) (oddly, PDD, although it has the most menacing name, is typically thought of as the least severe of the three.). Also, within each of the three categories of the spectrum, there is a spectrum. One person with Autism can look very different from another person with Autism.

Anyways, I wish you luck and have fun with your kid!

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[QUOTE=spazurek]
Okay I’m beat. I’m different, very very different, than most of you. For better or for worse, Andrew has me, not any of you, for a dad. I may screw him up bad. Or I may save him from a life of marginalization. It’s up to me. But unlike you guys, I actually have to do this. The stakes could not be higher, and it’s up to me to do what I think is the best thing, despite having only the vaguest notion of what that is. But I have to do my best, and so I will. I honestly do appreciate your interest, but I have to sign off, this is taking a lot out of me.

Thanks.
[/QUOTE]

We are cold and detached, and we only use logic, not emotions. You’re emotional, you know Andrew, you’re biased like any loving parent. Now take your pick:

Andrew is not autistic. You waste a few hours and some money having him tested by a pediatrician and then you stop worrying about what-ifs. (most probable)

Andrew is autistic. You gain useful knowledge from the test. You’re free to proceed as you want from there.

Andrew is not autistic. You don’t have him tested. Andrew thrives and does fine and you stop worrying after a few months/years.

Andrew is autistic. You don’t get him tested. You find out further down the line and you feel guilty for not doing it sooner. Sooner is always better, right?

You keep talking about Andrew being labelled. About not wanting him to think his brain is damaged, how diversity is important, etc. So? Nobody is going to kidnap Andrew after the test. Nobody even needs to know, except the parents. It’s an hour or two playing fun games.

We are not telling you how to raise your child, we’re telling you that collecting more data is a Good Thing and that it’s better to be safe than sorry. “Let’s wait and see” would be more appropriate if the test was dangerous/painful/invasive.

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[QUOTE=spazurek]
I’m not interested in useful. I’m interested in the damage done by defining my son’s mind as pathological. Increasing his function a bit is not worth him believing that his mind is defective.
[/QUOTE]
Did the day care people use terms like “pathological” or “defective”? Or is that YOUR language? Are you worried about how other people might define your son? Or are you worried how YOU might?

Your son is who he is. If it does turn out that his brain functions differently than most people’s, the point isn’t to “fix” him. The point is to give him the tools he needs to live up to his full capacity.

Here’s a small example from my own son’s experience. He’s a tactile learner. He like handling things, weighing them, feeling their texture, turning them over and over in his hands. It’s his preferred way of interacting with the world, just like some other people are visually oriented or verbally oriented. Unfortunately when you’re in school you’re expected to sit still and look and listen – tactile learning doesn’t really fit in with the classroom model.

Obviously the ideal situation would be a full-time private tutor to teach my son in the manner he learns best. :slight_smile: But since that wasn’t going to happen we experimented with various ways to give him an outlet for his tactile impulses while he was in class. So he had a little beanbag he could hold during lessons and “worry” a bit. (A pity we’re not Catholic – he could have done the rosary all day.) He had a chair that was a little wobbly so he had an outlet for fidgeting. The goal wasn’t to change his fundamental nature – to “stamp out diversity”. The goal was to give him tools so he could continue to be himself AND function effectively in a classroom setting.

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OMG. Bringing a two year old for an evaluation is not going to permanently “damage his self image”. You need to grow up, get over YOURSELF, and do what’s best for your child.

You are not a doctor and your only diagnosis of your child is, “he seems happy”. I hate to break it to you, but many developmentally disabled children “seem happy”. A girl who lived next door to me when I grew up had Down Syndrome. I remember her as a very happy, social playmate. A child can be “happy” and also still have special needs. You’re doing your child a disfavor by not recognizing this.

The day care providers aren’t doctors, but their job is to watch your child and alert you if they see anything unusual. What is so harmful about getting him tested? Meaning what is harmful to HIM, not to your “philosophy”. You don’t even have to explain to him that it’s an autism test and that he might have something horribly, horribly wrong with him. You’re overthinking this tremendously. He’s two years old. Tell him it’s a “checkup”. My parents gave me psychological testing when I was 8 WHOLE YEARS and you know what? I barely remember it- I remember playing with toys. Then the dr. told my parents that I was gifted and otherwise perfectly normal. But they cared enough about me to use every resource in their power to make sure that they were providing me with the most developmentally-appropriate care. And “gifted” is a label, too. In the end, the labels don’t matter, your kid is what matters. And if it takes the temporary affixation of a “label” in order to nuture him in the most effective way, then that’s what it takes.

Finally, it sounds like the day care providers spend more time with your child than you do. Perhaps you should listen to what they’re saying.

77

My daughter’s been in speech therapy, physical therapy and an occupational/speech therapy play group since she was about 6 months old. She just “graduated” all of them at her third birthday last week, in fact. At no time ever was she labeled “defective” or any other negative term. In fact, I rarely used the word “therapy” with her - she went to “play”, or people came over “to play with you!” She thinks Teri (the physical therapist) is the best playmate ever - when else does she get to play with the Elmo phone and bounce on the big red ball?

God’s honest truth - she has a slight developmental delay in her speech and gross motor skills. She might yet grow out of them, she might not. But she’s happy and capable and I love her to pieces. I’m also tremendously grateful to this group of women who have monitored her progress with me for the first three years of her life, who have shared my concerns and applauded her progress. I feel like I am absolutely one of the team, and we’re all here to make sure Caileigh has every tool in her toolkit so that when she starts school it won’t matter if she can’t run quite as steadily as the other kids or if she’s still substituting “f” for “th” sounds - because of all of her “playtime”, she knows how to compensate for her shortcomings and charm her way into people’s hearts with her efforts.

Please, get him tested. Chances are really good that he’s perfectly fine, autism or no. But autism is one of those things that, by the time most parents recognize the problem, it’s really, really hard to teach the compensating life skills needed to give the kid all the opportunities he can have if you intervene when he’s barely symptomatic.

What’s the benefit, you ask? The benefit is KEEPING a happy, healthy affectionate kid, instead of slowly losing him to his own inner world. Untreated autistics tend to slip away quietly, and when you wait too long, you can’t keep the connection with them that you and they so value.

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I lied. One more thought:

If you do chose to have the evaluation, know that as the parent you decide who sees the report produced. It’s not something that gets put into his “permanent file” for everyone to see unless you put it there yourself. You also don’t have to get “I’m Autistic” tattooed to his forehead, and it is generally a discouraged practice.

In sum: if you get an evaluation, no one has to know the results but you and your SO.

Ok, no more unsolicited advice.

Have a good night.

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[QUOTE=WhyNot]
What’s the benefit, you ask? The benefit is KEEPING a happy, healthy affectionate kid, instead of slowly losing him to his own inner world. Untreated autistics tend to slip away quietly, and when you wait too long, you can’t keep the connection with them that you and they so value.
[/QUOTE]

This bears repeating. I wish my son had been evaluated earlier, but he wasn’t until he was 4. Doctors kept telling me, “He’ll catch up,” or “It’s just a stage.” Bullshit. I know that kid better than anyone in the world, and while he and I connect pretty well, he doesn’t with anyone else. That’s not right, because he needs his friends and playmates and siblings and Dad, too.

WhyNot, I admire your thoughts about parenting. Just wanted to say that.

80

This is new news to** spazurek** and if I were in his shoes, I’d be feeling pretty vulnerable, too. What do you say we give him support for trying to make sense of this, and if he doesn’t want the advice, that’s okay?