The De Lay Debacle

Great Debates
1

Submitted for your approval…

During the recent circus of Texas politics, wherein Dems fled to Oklahoma in order to avoid being forced to cut thier political throats, the Dept. of Homeland Security was contacted in an effort to locate the airplane of one. Josh Marshall’s Talking Points blog summarizes nicely…

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/

It now seems clear, from all that we know, that the Department of Homeland Security was probably guilty of nothing more than being duped into getting involved in Texas House Speaker Tom Craddick’s effort to track down and arrest the Democrats in the Texas House. Homeland Security’s refusal to release the transcript of the call from the Texas state trooper which got Homeland into the act doesn’t inspire a great deal of confidence. Nor does the fact that they’re holding back the transcript so that the matter can be investigated by, to quote the Times, the “agency’s acting inspector general, Clark Kent Ervin, a Houston Republican who is well known among some of the same state lawmakers in Texas who wanted the plane tracked down.”

Cites mentioned:
http://www.statesman.com/legislature/content/coxnet/texas/legislature/0503/0516missingplane.html for “refusal to release”.

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/05/17/politics/17HOME.html?ex=1053748800&en=e9dd3852f9b28a9a&ei=5062&partner=GOOGLE “Times quote”

http://www.dhs.gov/dhspublic/interapp/biography/biography_0030.xml Facts on Mr. Ervin.

"In a run-down of the incident on CNN, Bill Schneider said “that Texas authorities had followed up on DeLay’s suggestion and asked the feds to help round up lawmakers on the lam.”

CNN Quote: http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/05/16/ip.pol.opinion.texas.dems/index.html

"Who did he talk to at the Justice Department? DeLay’s spokesman said DeLay spoke to someone at Justice. Who? What did he ask them? And what did they say? What role did he have in getting the leadership of the Texas state House to bring in the Feds in the first place? "

Delay spokesman: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A61464-2003May15.html

(This last goes into considerable depth on the matter, if you are not up to speed on the subject.)

Personally, I just love it when the spotlight falls on Tom De Lay, who has all the charm and warmth of a gila monster off its meds. But what the hell was this clown thinking?

Will he get away with it? Or is this the lead up to Trent Lott, the sequel?

2

This looks to me to be a typical redistricing issue that every state has been thru dozens of times. The party in power always tries to slant things to keep them in power. I can’t see where the feds have any business in getting invovled in a state matter. And of all the states, Texas has got to be the most sensitive to this issue. The Trent Lott “issue” was easy to make national. I’m not sure this will resonate in the same way outside of Texas.

3

Well, actually, the part that chaps one’s hide is the bit about calling the Feds into it. I kinda suspect that calling in the Dept. of HomeSec is a bit less than kosher. But maybe thats just me.

4

I don’t get the brouhaha here. Assuming he went IFR, any idiot can get the plane’s whereabouts. The FAA sells the data to data compliers, who then sell it to others. Presumably, the FAA also makes it available to law enforcement types. Looks like the Texas State Police were doing the job assigned them by the House Republicans and called to find out where the plane went. No different from instructing local law enforcement officials to be on the lookout for such-and-such license plate.

Did TSP imply the thing was down? Maybe. But again, it seems pretty minor what may or may not have been implied since the data is out there.

I think the debate should be: since it’s out there, how come the much-touted Department of Homeland Security couldn’t find the damn thing? Or alternatively, what idiot takes a bunch of Texas legislators on a Piper Cheyanne and goes VFR?

5

Cheyenne.

6

I give the Dems credit for finding an unusual solution to an otherwise unwinnable battle. Who knew that running away could turn defeat into victory?

7

I think that’s exactly what I said. If not, that’s what I meant:

“I can’t see where the feds have any business in getting invovled in a state matter. And of all the states, Texas has got to be the most sensitive to this issue.”

8

Since they didn’t break any laws there was no reason for any cooperation by the feds.

Anyone could have tracked the plane on the internet. Not sure why the locals couldn’t do it. It was a one-phone-call problem at best.

They only work 70 days in a year so this is a pretty lame stunt.

9

I am not sure why anyone would applaud the efforts of those people. They ran out on their jobs. It’s a shame they can’t have their pay for those days donated into the general fund for the state of Texas. They certainly were not doing their jobs. If I run off from work to keep from doing stuff I do not like, I am going to be in serious trouble. I wish people in this country would hold elected officials responsible for their actions and not tolerate activities that the average citizen could not hope of getting away with.

If Homeland Security could not find these guys, and they were flying IFR, then that whole group needs to be disbanded. It only confirms what most people would believe anyways, that the government cannot figure anything out when it is ran by politicians who are too interested in trading favors to do anything well.

Very unimpressive, all the way around. All of those Democrats AND Republicans should be ashamed of their actions.

10

tekneek, in your former life, as a nazi gashouse operator, you might have had the inclination to leave your job were you convinced it might not be in the best interest of your constituents(in your case, a few Jews, homosexuals, gypsies, etc.). Of course, I just made up all of the above. You were never, even in a former life, such a person. But if you had been, could you see walking off your “job?” To whom do those Dems owe allegiance?

11

Meee-yow.

What has me scratching my noggin is why the TSP called the Department of Homeland Security as opposed to the FAA.

On a related note, I find it kind of amazing that I haven’t heard more from the militia types about DHS and Big Brother… maybe if the police were trying to track down Rep. Ron Paul on a “missing” airplane, there’d be more outrage from the fringes of our society.

12

Captain Wilton Parmenter, of F-Troop.

13

Lie much, lately?

The gutles-wonders fled to avoid a vote that they knew would not be in their favor, wantonly ignoring the basis of representational democracy. You have to live with the results, even if you don’t like 'em. Not allowing the process to take place is approaching sedition.

The precedent here has incredible negative implications for a democracy. Whenever a vote is not going to go in your parties’ favor, run. Run your craven little ass off, and force your view on the populace. Why bother voting, if you will only allow a vote on matters that you favor?

Those who tried to track down the idiot Democrats in question did the right thing. We can only hope that the runaway-acrats will be punished severely enough to deter others from attempting such a criminal act again.

14

Brutus said:

I agree with you. The districts were redrawn only two years ago by the justice system. The attempt to redraw them before the next census is taken approaches sedition.

Meanwhile, thank goodness the Department of Homeland Security is protecting us from those terrorist Texas Democrats!:rolleyes:

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Is there something explicity illegal or unconstitutional about the redrawing of districts? No.

Do you people want to see the end of the democratic process in America?

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Brutus: Since you seem so hyped-up about this, can you explain to me what exactly the need was for Texas to pass a new redistricting plan?

17

Well the didn’t break a federal law, so I agree. If what happened the way luci claims it is.

However, what the cowards did do was illegal, and Texas Rangers went to arrest them and another Democrat (Ok’s governer) said they had no jurisdiction.

What a lame ass stunt, and Elucidator’s attempt at blaming the republicans for the domcrats shitty actions is beyond contempt.

When your so partisan, you call black white just to cover your buddies ass, you lose credibility.

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Ravenman Because the democrats have done the same for the last 130 years. Republicans finally get the chance because they finally own the house and the other side can’t take their own medicine. What they did was legal and by the rules. The democrats had done the same many times to get more seats. Their complaint wasn’t the redistricting, but that they cried that there wasn;'t going to be a debate about it. The debate is not maditory, the vote is. And they broke the rules by intentionally missing a qourum and denying teh Texas constituents their constitutional right to be represented. Many bills got dropped because of this partisan shinanigan. Look em up on the internet. And i thaught the dem’s were supposed to be for the poeple and all that rot.

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Are there any poll results available on how the residents of the republic, I mean state, of Texas feel about the Dem’s tactic? I’d be curious if they are losing any support from Democratic voters.

20

Actions should not be considered ethical or proper because of how they are reflected in polling data. If one side or the other rode out of town everytime there was a vote they were likely to lose, very little would get done.

Actually, I think that is a great idea. I hope legislators run away everytime something comes up for a vote. That way we don’t get any more dumb law to go with all the bad law we are currently bogged down with. On a federal level they should all rush off to a boat and go 50 miles out to sea and wait until the session ends. Even if it takes 2 years. :slight_smile:

Killing people in a gashouse and re-drawing voting districts are not and cannot be considered similar activity. I admit that withdrawing yourself from your job when working would kill someone is ethical behavior. Running off your job simply because you are looking at having to do something you do not like is not really ok. If I did that on my job I would spend a significant amount of time elsewhere and would lose my job.

It was a big stunt, and the Republicans involved were too dumb to handle it properly. Calling Homeland Security is such a blunder, and probably did not help them at all. They called that because they thought it was a spy agency ran directly by Republican politicians. If they had legitimate concerns, they would have contacted the FAA just like law enforcement does on a regular basis. The whole thing was a political circus show. Now they are proudly back, with lots of fanfare, and prepared to get back to selling snake oil.