Evidently FIFA have ruled out the use of technology in order to maintain the “human aspect” of the game.
http://www.worldfootballinsider.com/Story.aspx?id=32729
Being cynical, I just see this as another way FIFA can determine the outcome of games.
So lets be clear:
You view a professional foul as “cheating.” Correct? Or incorrect? :dubious:
After watching and playing the sport for at least as many years as yourself, I think professional fouls are an intrinsic part of the game. And even if I hate them when they are committed against my team I’d certainly expect them to do the exact same thing in reverse.
Of course, I also expect the player committing the foul to get a yellow or even a red subject to both, the rules of the game – last man between goal and attacking player past midfield and/or the “professionalism” of the tackle/foul.
Henry’s handball = black eye for the credibility of the game. Reminds me of the farce in Korea, against both, Italy and Spain – never mind the infamous “hand of Og.” Really feel for the Irish.
Henry says France-Ireland game should be replayed
What are the odds FIFA will grow a pair? Between zero and none I mean.
Henry only came out and said this because he knows it is not going to happen - which makes it easy to take the high ground. FIFA is never going to allow a replay, and they shouldn’t - I mean, it’s not like this is the first game where a decision by the referee had a huge influence. Should all those games be replayed? They need to change the rules on the basis of this incident, so that it is not going to happen in the future. But they should not issue an *ad hoc *ruling that goes against earlier rulings and creates a precedent, only because everyone including Thierry Henri feels bad for the Irish.
Video replay makes the most sense.
Jokes aside, the Irish supporters are dealing with it well enough, whereas your fans would still be enjoying the riot if the same had happened to Argentina.
Because I really do find his opinion that “most” feel that professional fouls are not bad to be utterly bizarre and completely against my experience, living in two different countries that live and breathe football. His opinion also seems to be radically different from the other sin this thread that have commented on it. The only reason I can think of for someone being so far removed from the view of myself and others in this thread is that they are just not subject to the same amount of discussion and general media and social saturation of football, due to living in a country that simply doesn’t regard football in the same way as most of the rest of the world.
Exactly. It is unfortunately part of the game, mainly due to FIFA and UEFA not only resisting the use of modern technology to police that game but also being soft on those that “use their professionalism” to break the rules.
However, that has absolutely nothing to do with whether it is cheating or not. Widespread cheating is still cheating.
regardless of the way you feel, ‘you are from America so you must be wrong’ just does not qualify as an argument. And as far as it is ‘radically different from the others in this thread’ - RedFury (from Spain) and I (from The Netherlands) seem to be in agreement with him, so maybe you want to rethink that.
I’m from England but then we don’t have a very good history of football either…
In case I wasn’t clear – and I wasn’t – that’s exactly what I meant by “FIFA growing a pair.” And I maintain they won’t.
Just hoping something good would come out of this debacle.
amanset,
Spain is juts as engrossed in football culture – and arguably more – as is England, and I know of very few fans who think the way you do. Meaning that a “professional foul” is certainly not cheating but depending on the circumstances, the right play to make and the player making it praised for his awareness. Any coach worth his salt would tell you that. That it still pisses us off when they do against our team is meaningless in the overall appraisal of the foul.
OTOH, I’d certainly agree that both FIFA and UEFA need to actually apply the rules as written. For instance, did you happen to catch the last Spain/Argentina match at the Vicente Calderon last week? Had the rules been applied, Argentina would have ended the match with nine on the pitch and at least two additional PK’s against them. Hope and pray that’s not a preview of what we’ll be watching in SA.
It isn’t my argument. If you think it is then you need to reread what I have written.
If it is OK then why does it piss you off when it happens your team? Is it because that underneath everything, deep down, you know that it is cheating? I’d wager so.
“But depending on the circumstances, the right play to make and the player making it praised for his awareness. Any coach worth his salt would tell you that.” has absolutely no bearing on whether it is cheating or not. Sticking your hand up when the ball goes out to claim a throw in when you KNOW it is the other team’s ball is deception and, following a strict usage of the word as some here seem to like to do, is cheating. However every coach everywhere tells you to do it. It is dishonest and quite clearly trying to deceive the referee but it is still commonly taught all over the world.
“Win at all costs” is the modern mantra, leading to the views that you are expressing.
It is still cheating though and that it pisses you off when it happens to your team speaks volumes.
To be honest, you’ve both said the same thing. You “accept” it yet you for some reason still get angry when it happens against you.
My reading of that is you accept that it is bad but you turn a blind eye to it when your team does it. Why else would you get angry when another team does it to you?
Isn’t it awful when a refereeing decision goes in favour of the favourites, especially when their players are fully aware that e.g a penalty should not be given but make no attempt to “play fair”, thereby winning the game and preventing the smaller team from progressing in a major competition.
(ahem)
Or John O’Shea applauding Pazzini’s red card for an innocent clash when jumping for an aerial ball.
So walk me through where Keane gets an advantage from the handball such that he scores? Walk me through how he manipuplates the play to score a goal? It was a terrible decision to be sure but you cannot claim that Keane intentionally sought either a penalty or even to manipulate the ball in a manner to gain an advantage. A totally different situation and you know it.
Innocent clash? He smacked O’Shea on the side of the head. Unintentionally as we found out later, but how was O’Shea to know that at the time given where he was standing…you know, behind him and getting elbowed in the head. Gotta love the WUM.
But surely the “sporting” thing for Ireland to have done in the Georgia game was to decline to take the penalty. How come they didn’t? You know, if Ireland are such a fair and noble team?
And you said yourself that O’Shea couldn’t see what happened, so how come he’s so sure it’s a red card?
Obviously my point is that decisions go in favour of Ireland just as much as they go against… and that the Irish see no problem in exploiting those decisions for their own advantage as “part of the game”. That suggests that were the situations reversed no Irish player would have made a fuss just like the French didn’t.
Allow me to just briefly note that you’re shifting the discussion away from whether people in a significant proportion actually feel this way or not (even if they are from countries that ‘breathe football’) to the question whether this belief is in fact justified. In regard to that latter question, I’ll just mention that in a full football season, there’s hundreds of games that I have absolutely no stake in, and many more if you take into account all the foreign competitions, all the European football and all the games between countries that I don’t care about. If, in such a game, a defender would use his physicality to prevent a goal, I would certainly accept that as part of the game.
I would hope that if he does it too often, he will get a yellow card, especially if he might injure an attacker. I would also hope that they show more attractive football and that they would not have to resort to fouls, but I still would consider it part of the game just as much as bringing in an extra player in the 91st minute when you’re 1-0 up. That, to me, is football, it’s part of the game, maybe a part of the game I don’t like as much as virtuous, nimble and stunning play but nothing I would care about. Of course, if my team did not do it I would yell at them for that, and if the opponents *do *use those tactics I will yell at them and sing songs about their collective mothers’ employment or facial hair, whichever is most appropriate for the occasion. And I’m completely ready to admit that that may seem less than consistent, but then again, I guess my love for my team may not be consistent with rationality or a coherent view of reality all of the time :D. At the end of the day, in a discussion of why I hate team X so much, their use of delaying tactics or professional fouls will hardly be a valid argument.
Keane was well past the player when the peno was given so how exactly was he to know what the call was? Again, he didn’t do anything affimitively to get the penalty or get an advantage.
Because he usually doesn’t get smacked in the head when he goes up for a header. Don’t know how much football you have played but typically if you are going for a 50/50 ball, one that is about the shoulder, your arms and your opponents arms are around shoulder level, not head level. A clash of heads indicates bad timing/luck but an elbow in the head is often intentionally particularly at that level given that they all know how to head the ball.
It isn’t like with like though as neither of the examples that you pointed out indicated affirmitive acts by the Irish player. Entirely different than Henry’s calculated effort to gain an advantage.
And I never said that Ireland were morally superior just that there should be a level playing field.