The Democratic party: Caught between Barack and a hard place

[elucidator]

I suppose if one consistently votes for the liberal position, one is liberal. Now all you need is a reliable definition of “liberal positions”, and you’re all set.

[Richard_Parker]

@Stratocaster

Out of the goodness of my heart, I’ll point out that I don’t care about his justifications for liberal votes . . . I have no problem with the general liberal / conservative definitions this article assigns.

These aren’t arguments, friend. They are statements of your personal fancy. Whether you “care” or have “no problem” says exactly nothing about whether justifications for votes matter or whether the NJ’s methodology is sensible. I have made arguments for why justifications do matter and why the methodology is bad. If you don’t care to address them, fine. But this is GD, not IMHO.

[jayjay]

@TWDuke

That would be an amazingly foolish move on McCain’s part. For a lot of conservatives, the only reason to vote for him is to vote against the Democrats. For Obama to accept the spot would be the end of his credibility, as well.

Lieberman, on the other hand, has already lost all of his credibility, so he should go for it.

[Ocean_Annie]

@Sam Stone

Obama is NOT a centrist. Not even close. He has an extremely liberal voting record. And he has several economic advisors, and they run the gamut from centrist to left wing.

Since the traditional liberal ideology that once defined Democrats has been pushed so far to the left that it is coined fanatical, and any ideas that work against the right’s ultraconservative platform are considered liberal, casting Obama as centrist or liberal depends on how these terms are defined. This site ranks Clinton 18/100 and Obama 24/100 on progressive issues. Clinton is clearly the Communard, according to conservative talk pundits.

Obama’s push for bipartisanship, compromise, and unity indicates a centrist stance. His health care reform is hardly liberal, unless making health care affordable and accessible is liberal. If Obama pushed for tax funded universal health care like every other developed country, I would consider it liberal and Obama a hero. He voted against credit card interest caps. In one of the debates he seemed hesitant on government intervention to relieve victims of the subprime debacle; although, I will say, in his defense, he wants to help primary residence homeowners not property investors. Obama’s chief economic advisor is a self proclaimed centrist. Goolsbee interview, Wiki

[DMC]

@Stratocaster

So, Obama may have had, um, conservative reasons for voting liberal positions almost every instance? As noted here:Interesting.

Oh please, that’s the stupidest cite in the world if you want to determine how liberal a presidential candidate is. In fact, the National Journal will likely come back next year and explain that anyone who thinks their little analysis means that Obama is actually the most liberal senator is a fool. Hell, they’ll even tell you that their ratings as to which votes are liberal and which are conservative are purely subjective.

Whether Obama can be considered a centrist is certainly arguable, as that depends on how large one defines the center, but he’s quite definitely not the most liberal senator.

[Damuri_Ajashi]

@Fear Itself

That means the Pubs only lose by 5% points instead of 10.

We are going to need a pretty large majority and a strong presidential mandate to do the things we need to do. The bigger the Democratic majority the better.

[Damuri_Ajashi]

[QUOTE=Sam Stone]
Is anyone at all worried that they are going to settle on a nominee who hasn’t had a whole lot of scrutiny, and who on paper is eminently beatable?.. …Obama’s certainly a star, and maybe he’ll make a good president, but he’s also a pretty big risk.
[/quote

I think a LOT of Obama supporters are worried about the chance we are taking but we are so sick of the devil we know that we want the devil we don’t know.

McCain is likely to play the stability card if the economy is shaky - when people are feeling insecure, they might want a fresh face to come in and save the day. Or they might be more comforted by haiving someone who, while maybe not as inspiring as Obama is not as likely to make any huge mistakes, either. I honestly don’t know which way the public will break, but it could easily be either way.

I don’t know that most people would associate McCain with stability and the economy. What evidence is there that Obama would make a huge mistake? After all McCain supported the invasion of Iraq and Obama didn’t.

Right now we are looking for a Democratic nomineee and I haven’t heard anything that makes Obama a weaker candidate than his opponent in a general election against McCain.

[Diogenes_the_Cynic]

For me, all I’m really hearing from McCain is that he wants to keep everything exactly the same as it was under Bush. Not exactly inspiring or reassuring.

[tnetennba]

McCain slogan: “We are the same you’ve been waiting for!”

[tnetennba]

McCain slogan: “We are the same you’ve been waiting for!”

[Damuri_Ajashi]

@elucidator

with nothing more exciting than an occasional demonstration by the indigenous personnel.

When you have a population that seems determined to get us out, what makes you think that the “occassional demonstrations” are going to transform from roadside bombs to sit-ins?

[Fear_Itself]

@Damuri Ajashi

We are going to need a pretty large majority and a strong presidential mandate to do the things we need to do. The bigger the Democratic majority the better.

Not if we take the Senate, as I expect. If that happens, we can do with 270 electoral votes, and the popular vote is largely irrelevant, as we have learned.

[Damuri_Ajashi]

@Fear Itself

Not if we take the Senate, as I expect. If that happens, we can do with 270 electoral votes, and the popular vote is largely irrelevant, as we have learned.

There are just over half a dozen competitive Republican seats in play and my point was that having Obama at the top of the ticket is going to create a more solid congressional majority than having Clinton at the top of the ticket.