I’m not an NBA guy, but I’m a Chicago guy, and as such I’ve watched the Derrick Rose debacle unfold over the years with tangential interest.
I won’t weigh in on the basketball aspect of this though, because I really don’t know much about that, but I’m curious what basketball (and sports guys in general) think of the D. Rose situation.
For those that don’t know he’s basically been catastrophically injured twice in the last few years and barely able to play. Not really his fault IMHO. But he recently sparked a frenzy with these comments:
He’s only played 5 of 9 games or so this year.
Generally, at least in the media, he appears to have almost checked out. Got the big deal. Lots of endorsements. After those injuries he’s either gunshy, which I could understand because I’m sure they hurt like hell, or he’s just like “fuck it. I got mine”.
The RG3 situation is similiar in that they were both rookie superstars with high potential to be game changers for their teams, got injured, and now will never be the same. They both had MEGA hype machines and marketing campaigns touting their impending returns. I don’t think RG3 is by choice, I think he’s actually physically not the same and the game adapted after his rookie season. D. Rose appears to have just punched out.
Thoughts? If you’re the Bulls what do you do? What CAN you do?
As soon as he was so hesitant about coming back after his knee injury I knew he’d have one excuse after another. With these new statement - trade him to the 76ers or Lakers and move on.
I don’t think he has checked out, i think he is an elite athlete who refuses to admit he is done. If he can only play half the games after being injured for two years straight he really should not be playing at all, but there is no way he can ever admit that. I expect him to go the way of Brandon Roy, his role will diminish little by little as the realities of his failing body force management to reduce his minutes and will retire once he finds himself as a barely contributing bench warmer.
I don’t think he’s done, I think he’s unwilling to play with discomfort or pain. While the rest of his team is playing heavy minutes while injured; while Joakim Noah is going out there on feet that hurt every second; while the rest of the team sucks it up and play for a coach who over-uses his players; Derrick Rose just sits on the bench because he’s not 100%. Either he doesn’t realize that there isn’t a single NBA player who is 100% after the first game, or he doesn’t care enough to push himself and his body unless he’s perfect. After watching him refuse to play when the doctors gave him medical clearance (and in fact said that playing was the next part of his rehab), I’ve concluded he simply doesn’t have the strong will and/or professionalism, to play through pain.
Kind of hard to wrap the head around really. Ultimately he’s talking about his willingness to play a GAME, for $20M/yr. The same GAME that people play for free at the Y, in High Schools, Middle Schools. Basketball and Baseball are the most kush of the pro sports IMHO. Baseball has the REALLY long season which I’m sure wears the body down. Basketball not so much.
Although, I think fans take for granted the amount of pain these guys experience when they blow out a knee etc… which he’s done twice. I’m sure it makes you gunshy regardless of how tough you may be.
As a Bulls fan, it has certainly been hard and frustrating to watch this drama the last few years. But I have to note that his teammates, coaches, and team management, who are in the best position to know what is really going on, have been uniformly supportive. Of course, we wouldn’t expect them to openly slag a teammate, but it seems like they have been consistently defending him in language much stronger than would be required by basic professional etiquette, and have often appeared genuinely offended that Rose’s commitment is being questioned.
Obviously his recent comments were appallingly tone-deaf, but he’s a basketball player, not a diplomat, and those close to him seem unanimous in saying that he didn’t really mean what he actually said, so I wouldn’t hold that against him too much.
As for what the Bulls should do, well, the same thing they should do with every other player: trade him if they think it would make the team better, and not otherwise. We won’t know for probably a few years if they made the right move or not, and if they don’t I would think that should be the end of Paxson’s career as a GM.
I am not a Bulls fan, but I have been generally enthusiastic about the team the past few years - lots of interesting and likable players.
Here’s my take:
If Bulls’ fans are really so shortsighted as to begrudge Derek Rose the right to take long term care of himself, 11 games into a season following two years lost to catastrophic injury…
If they really believe he’d be better off pushing himself and making himself potentially unavailable for the playoffs - which are inevitable whether he plays every game or not - all so that they can win games they are already winning a bit more handily…
If they really believe that playing for the long haul - a strategy that’s netted five rings and counting somewhere in Texas - represents a lack of commitment to winning…
If they actually want to trade this dude, who I should point out is averaging 18 points and 6 assists per game with a PER over 20 in the 5 games he has played, for pennies on the dollar because he acknowledged the ironclad fact that there is more to life than one’s career…
…then I sincerely hope they get what they want, because they deserve it.
He’s being paid tens of millions of dollars, dollars that come from fan pockets, ultimately, to focus on career, not his retirement lifestyle.
There are guys out there picking up trash 5 days a week for 1/1000th of what Rose makes in a year, they’re not getting to pick and choose a bunch of days off because they want a more healthy retirement.
You get paid far more in 1 year than most everyone gets paid in their entire lives, you don’t get to talk about work/life balance. You can quit tomorrow, never work another day in your life, and still have way more than 99% of the people in this country.
Simply put, I disagree. Being paid a lot of money doesn’t mean you’re required to stop thinking about your health post-career. It’s a very strange thing to think it does.
…uh… yeah, they are. I certainly get to pick and choose a bunch of days off. Don’t you?
I just… I don’t agree. I don’t understand this mindset at all.
These are professional athletes. Part of the deal is that they sacrifice their bodies. They are paid, in effect, to push themselves and their bodies now, for our entertainment, at the cost of their future health. I think almost all professional athletes understand and made their peace with it. We’re not saying their future health shouldn’t be thought of, but rather that that future health shouldn’t stop you from playing now if you can. Or, if future health is that important to you, don’t cash that massive check.
I consider him to be absolutely free to think about his post-career health. What I think is bullshit is to cash staggeringly large checks for potentially-health-damaging-work and then refuse to work on the grounds that it may damage his health. If you don’t want to damage your health, find a new line of work.
That’s like taking huge paychecks to be a boxer, then refusing to get in the ring because you might get punched in the face. I don’t demand that you get punched in the face for a living, but you sort of have to take that risk if you want to have a boxing career.
The more I think about it the more annoying it is.
It’s fucking BASKETBALL. He’s being paid millions to play BASKETBALL. Was he this concerned when he was in high school or college? Or just now that he’s got the big payday secured?
What do you care? Its not your money. He’s ripping off Jerry Reinsdorf, not you. You’ve gotten hundreds of hours of free entertainment from Rose, he doesn’t owe you anything.
OK. So where is the line? When is it acceptable to think about anything beyond the next game?
I notice that both you and Hamlet have ignored the rest of the points in my post, which are really the point here. Yes, if Derek Rose is not going to ever be able to play basketball again and knows it, then it’s kind of shitty that he is cashing his check. But that’s not the case. He is still able to play, at a fairly high level. Pacing himself, stretching out his recovery carefully to make sure he doesn’t risk re-injury… these things are both good for his long term health and good for his team.
Who cares if Derek Rose plays in some mid-November game against the Celtics or the Sixers? The Bulls are going to beat the shit out of those teams with or without Rose, and indeed they are 8-3, third best in the East. And yeah, that’s partly because guys like Joakim Noah are playing through injuries, but they’re different injuries, and unless you’re an actual physician trying to make one-to-one comparisons between them is pretty foolish. If taking games off in November means you have a more-or-less 100% Rose to play the Cavs or the Heat in May or June, why the hell would you not want that? Why would you want the guy to risk his health now? So you can beat the Pistons by 17 instead of 11?
A healthy Rose is the Bulls’ only chance to win a title. I would think that the team’s fans would be in favor of literally anything that gets them into the playoffs with their best player at full strength, but apparently some kind of weird macho routine is at play here.
This is true for a vast majority of sports teams, players, businesses, celebrities, and the entirety of the world out there. Were I to search your posts, would I find you opining on anything that doesn’t financially effect you personally? Or does this “why do you care, it’s not your money” argument only go for Bulls fans?
He doesn’t get to decide that. Again, that’s kinda part of the deal when you make being a professional sports player your career choice. You are supposed to listen to the coaches, the team doctors, the owner, and anyone higher up the decision chain for you.
I agree that Thibs works his players too hard, has them play too many minutes, and should be much more like Popovich and rest his stars much more often than they do. I agree that Rose should be rested more, play less minutes, and not kill himself in meaningless games (which is pretty much every regular season game).
But Rose isn’t the coach. It’s the coaches, and the owners, decision to make. Derrick doesn’t get to decide when and if he wants to play or not, or whether or not he slags off. If he does, he can fairly be criticized.
Am I missing some part of the story where Jon Paxson, or Jerry Reinsdorf, or hell, even Thibs, are flat-out telling Derrick Rose to play and he’s refusing? Or are they choosing to defer to their $20M investment on the subject of his own health?
From what I’ve read, most of the blowback is coming from the fans. The team, including the GM and owner, don’t seem to have much of a problem with Rose.
Of course not. They didn’t push when the doctors told him he should play to finish his rehab, and they’re not going to push now. That’s one of the joys of being a franchise player. In the media, fellow players, coaches and owners won’t say what the fans believe to be true. It’s part of the game too.
Of course you’re free to ignore the opinions of the fans, or hand wave them away. That’s your perogative.