The Doper Dudes getting in shape thread

[Valgard]

[QUOTE=Fish]
Well, you might not see any weight loss immediately with weight lifting routines. I know I’m not — not yet. I’m not going to get discouraged, though. I’m doing more crunches now than I was, lifting weights for longer periods without getting tired… it’s going to work, I just have to keep at it.
[/QUOTE]

Weight training may actually result in a weight gain (muscle is denser than fat) and if you’re really packing on the muscle you could even bulk up a bit and look bigger. Not that most guys mind that kind of size gain! There are obvious benefits (strength, muscle endurance, muscle requires more calories just sitting there on your frame than fat) so keep doing it but AFAIK to really see weight come off you want to add aerobic exercise (getting your heart rate into the appropriate target zone for 20+ minutes) to start burning fat and modify your eating as necessary (substituting healthier foods for junk food, portion control). So definitely do not get discouraged if strength training alone doesn’t seem to be getting you where you want to be - it’s part of the whole “getting healthier” routine.

My first few months of losing weight I wasn’t doing much strength training at all, just watching what I ate and increasing aerobic exercise. I started with just walking during my lunch hour (a brisk 45 minute walk has an extra payoff since no time to go out for a big lunch, just grab a salad on the way back), then began jogging again. The weight loss was quite fast, for a while I was averaging 3lbs a week.

As the weight came off the exercise became easier. For me the mental technique that worked was to remind myself that I’m changing my lifestyle - exercise and eating right are part of my normal daily routine, not special activities that I have to make time for.

[Valgard]

[QUOTE=Valgard]
My first few months of losing weight I wasn’t doing much strength training at all, just watching what I ate and increasing aerobic exercise. I started with just walking during my lunch hour (a brisk 45 minute walk has an extra payoff since no time to go out for a big lunch, just grab a salad on the way back), then began jogging again. The weight loss was quite fast, for a while I was averaging 3lbs a week.
[/QUOTE]

Really need to finish my thoughts before hitting Submit.

To throw some math into the mix, a pound of fat stores about 3500 calories. So if you are currently not gaining weight (that is, what you eat and the amount of activity you get in each day balance out), burning an extra 500 calories a day should result in a weight loss of about 1lb/ week.

Plain old walking burns about 100 calories per mile. My daily walk is about 3.5 miles so that’s about 350 calories/day right there. If I did nothing else but cut my caloric intake by 150 calories per day that’d take care of the rest - that’s one can of Coke.

So take a walk each day and ditch one can of soda from your diet and losing 10lbs by early March is quite realistic. If you were having several cans a day of the stuff and you just cut them out, even greater impact.

[robardin]

[QUOTE=MaxTheVool]
OK, here’s my plan:
(1) A get a scale
(2) I set a target weight loss goal. Probably 1 pound per week.
(3) I spend two months trying to lose that much weight through gradually increasing the duration/intensity of my jogging (and tossing in some situps/pushups also)
(4) If that is not leading to sufficient weight loss, I go more drastic and start modifying my diet, with sodas being first on the chopping block.

So, hear me now, believe me later, and by later I mean March 1, I will be losing 1 pound a week!
[/QUOTE]

No reason to wait to modify the diet last, at least the easiest stuff like cutting out sugared soda. That’s a complete no-brainer. Switch to flavored seltzer or at least diet soda for a while, at the very least. Calories consumed in liquid form are the easiest way to gain (or retain) weight.

Actually even before that, you should spend the effort to actually log what you eat and drink and compute an estimate of your daily intake. All the jogging won’t help if your net calories expended is not significantly less than what you take in. You might be surprised how many calories you’re really consuming: empty sources like sugared soda (150-180 calories per can) and white bread (110 calories per slice), or fat-laden dressings like mayonnaise and butter, can really add up and account for a significant portion of your calories.

Following the rule of thumb of 3500 calories to a pound of fat lost, compute your TDEE based on your present height and weight and activity level, and subtract 15-20% (or take off a flat deficit of 500 calories a day). That’s how much you should be eating a day on average. Multiply that deficit by 7 and divide by 3500, that should roughly equal the number of pounds a week you would expect to lose. Eat more fat/junk food or slack off the exercising and it will be less; stick to the training regiment and eat more nutritiously, and it will be more (closer to the predicted number).

Track all of your food intake and fat lost (using a scale or other measuring device that tells you your body fat percentage) until you get a feel for how your body responds. This will probably take 4-6 weeks.

After this, you can work on finding a happy medium between eating some amount of stuff you like, and getting results. Total self-denial of one’s favorite foods is one of the leading causes of giving up, so for example, if you really, really love soda for some reason, go ahead and add back one can a day, but only after you’ve gotten a baseline scheme working where you’re losing fat in a programmatic way. That way if your fat loss stops, you can either cut the soda back out, or figure out some other place to modify your diet to allow it to stay in while resuming the fat loss.

Also, be sure to always eat breakfast and not “starve and gorge”. The “3500 calories to one pound of fat” rule of thumb won’t work if you eat one huge meal a day, or skip breakfast and eat a huge lunch at 1pm, and another huge dinner at 7pm. Ideally you should be dividing your daily calories into 4-6 meals a day, certainly at least three, to keep your body’s metabolism in a steady state. It’ll do wonders for your “energy level” too – no more feeling sleepy after meals!)

[Improv_Geek]

I’m in. But to keep these threads from being “Doper Weight Loss Part Deux” we should definitely focus on having fitness goals. Mine are largely superficial in that I dream of one day looking in the mirror at abs, though that is a long ways off. But I also have physical goals:

1. Run five miles (I’m 6’6" and have never been apt running, I think the longest I ever ran without stopping was half a mile)
2. 25 pull ups (I’ve never done one in my life)
3. 100 push ups
4. Body fat percentage low enough that I can have abs

I want to be healthy and strong, I look at my dad and his gut and know I don’t want that to be me. I don’t want the abs to attract women, I want it for me, though the abs will help.

I’m 6’6". At my peak I weighed 325lbs. Thanks to my frame and build I carry weight very well, as of two days ago I was still hovering just under 300 lbs at 298.

I’ve been reading an Ebook by a guy named Tom Venuto called “Burn the Fat, Feed the Muscle.” From what I’ve read this guy is sane and isn’t pushing a miracle diet, and most of all - what he says makes sense to me. He’s a body builder, but what the book says has reach for all of us.

So with my goals, here is how I’m approaching them:

1. Keep a close watch on my calories and what kinds of food I eat. I’ve relaxed this over the holidays but I’m going to be delving deeply into this again.
2. Walk / jog daily. Right now I can jog about 1/4 of a mile, and then I walk. Normally I make a circuit of my neighborhood (3/4 of a mile) in about 7-8 minutes. Today I took a long 40 minute run/walk out and up a road from my neighborhood. I haven’t checked the distance, but it must be 4 miles at least round trip. Yay for Florida weather.
3. Pushups and crunches as time allows. My work is pretty laid back and as long as I don’t work up too hard a sweat I should be able to do these in the office.

So, let’s do it!
– IG

[Improv_Geek]

Is there interest in an email list as a support group? We could use yahoo or I can host it on my personal site.

Just throwing the idea out there. While I am sure most of us check The Dope on a very regular basis, email has an immediacy which can help drive us to work harder. Anyone? Anyone? Buehler?

– IG

[robardin]

[QUOTE=Improv Geek]
I’ve been reading an Ebook by a guy named Tom Venuto called “Burn the Fat, Feed the Muscle.” From what I’ve read this guy is sane and isn’t pushing a miracle diet, and most of all - what he says makes sense to me. He’s a body builder, but what the book says has reach for all of us.
[/quote]

I agree, that book is terrific. It gives you a ton of information but always maintains the mantra of “Your body is unique, find what works for you”. This includes a happy medium of activity and “cheat meals” that doesn’t completely forbid whatever you particularly favorite sin food is, which makes it much easier to take it as a “lifestyle change” and not a program where you just want to finish it and move off of it as soon as possible.

Any book that has contradictory statements like the following just has that Taoist, Yin/Yang ring of truth to me:
[ul]
[li]These are ten foods you should NEVER eat / Food is one of life’s great pleasures, and complete abstinence from what you love is not wise.[/li][li]If my goal was to lose as much fat as possible I would do cardio twice a day, five days a week until I reached my goal / Do as little cardio as necessary, and no more.[/li][li]Tracking your body fat using calipers or a Tanita body composition scale is the only way to really monitor your progress / Define your goals in terms of what makes you happy, including clothing size and how you are perceived by others.[/li][/ul]

Your current regimen sounds great. Start slowly and build up, that’s the way to go. And just stick at it week over week, and only stop to check your “progress” every week or so. After a month you’ll probably be pleasantly surprised (especially the first two months)!

[Argent_Towers]

One of my presents was a set of those hand-grip forearm exerciser things. I’ve been using them a lot - I’m one of those people who’s always fidgeting with something, and now I can fidget and be exercising at the same time!

On the one hand (ha!) it’s a little depressing that I’ve gone, in the past 2 years, from lifting weights regularly to using hand grips as my only real form of exercise. On the other hand, it’s good to actually be doing something productive while fidgeting. But my hope is that the small “pump” from this minor exercise will motivate me to do some curls too, or pushups, and that will slowly lead to more regular exercise. It sounds ridiculous but it probably will actually happen.

[Malienation]

Thoughts:

1. Although you can’t lose fat and gain muscle simultaneously (robardin is right), weight training helps “stem the bleeding” of muscle that you lose concurrently with the fat. If you lose fat without exercise, you lose fat and muscle. If you lose fat with weight training, you lose fat and less muscle than you would have if you had not started weight training.

2. Long term weight loss is practical as follows: 1/2 % body weight per week (possible for most people), 1 % body weight per week (possible for young or very determined), 2% body weight per week (young and very determined, i.e, exercise religiously, eat like a monk). These are long term estimates; pretty much anyone can lose 2-3% in the first week.

My case: 1% is practical, or .01. I’ll call this P. Number of weeks is W. Goal Weight is G. Current Weight is C.

So: G = (1-P)^(W) * C

Or, W = (log (G/C))/(log(1-P)) = (log (175/200))/(log(1-.01)) = 13.3 weeks. With the holidays? Not holding my breath…

[Improv_Geek]

Alright, this is my current goal / challenge. I’m going to lose five lbs (2.27 kg) in 2 weeks.

Eating plan:

1. Drop regular soda completely, it’s going to be water and juice with the occasional diet soda to boost my caffeine levels.
2. NO CHOCOLATE. This is a hard rule for me since my job requires me working for a concession stand, but it’s definitely doable.
3. Eat right. I’m not going to starve myself doing this. Tom Venuto lays out a good plan for calories and such. On my “diet” days I’ll be eating ~2700 calories and on the regular days I’ll be at ~3800.

Exercise:

1. Run/Walk - 2 days on, 1 day off. I’ll be taking jogs either around the neighborhood or up the country road behind my neighborhood.
2. Pushups - I’m sadly lacking in the upper body strength department, I can do five in a row and so the goal will be to do three sets of five.
3. Crunches - I can do 60 of these (I have abs, they’re just hidden!) and so I’ll do three sets of 60.

And that’s the plan. No weight training for the time being, I don’t have the money for the gym membership though I may incorporate my dumbbells down the road.

So on Sunday, January 7th, 2007 - I should be at least 5 lbs lighter than I am now.

Anyone else interested in taking the 5 lb challenge?

– IG

[Valgard]

[QUOTE=Improv Geek]
Alright, this is my current goal / challenge. I’m going to lose five lbs (2.27 kg) in 2 weeks.

Eating plan:

1. Drop regular soda completely, it’s going to be water and juice with the occasional diet soda to boost my caffeine levels.
2. NO CHOCOLATE. This is a hard rule for me since my job requires me working for a concession stand, but it’s definitely doable.
3. Eat right. I’m not going to starve myself doing this. Tom Venuto lays out a good plan for calories and such. On my “diet” days I’ll be eating ~2700 calories and on the regular days I’ll be at ~3800.

Exercise:

1. Run/Walk - 2 days on, 1 day off. I’ll be taking jogs either around the neighborhood or up the country road behind my neighborhood.
2. Pushups - I’m sadly lacking in the upper body strength department, I can do five in a row and so the goal will be to do three sets of five.
3. Crunches - I can do 60 of these (I have abs, they’re just hidden!) and so I’ll do three sets of 60.

And that’s the plan. No weight training for the time being, I don’t have the money for the gym membership though I may incorporate my dumbbells down the road.

So on Sunday, January 7th, 2007 - I should be at least 5 lbs lighter than I am now.

Anyone else interested in taking the 5 lb challenge?

– IG
[/QUOTE]

Go for it! One word of caution from my own experience, watch it on the fruit juice. 12oz of plain old OJ has the same calories as 12oz of soda and it’s pretty much all in the form of sugar. Looking back I realize that I was knocking back several 8oz cans of juice (OJ, AJ, Cranberry) every day.

Like you said, don’t starve yourself and eat sensibly. Try to develop a sense of how full you feel and whether you are actually hungry or you are just putting food in your mouth because it’s there. This is where foods with a lower calorie density (fresh fruits and veggies) are great, they have a lot of bulk which helps you feel full but they don’t have as many calories.

[Least_Original_User_Name_Ever]

Foo. 5 pounds? In a week? I’d have to sleep in a steam room. I’m with you on one pound, though.

[Valgard]

[QUOTE=Least Original User Name Ever]
Foo. 5 pounds? In a week? I’d have to sleep in a steam room. I’m with you on one pound, though.
[/QUOTE]

Well, two weeks, and he’s starting out at 300lbs.

[Fish]

Reporting in: I’ve been working out with more regularity over the past week. Even though there are days when I’m busy.I always manage to make time. I’m just past the always-store stage and I’m feeling really good about how things are going so far.

No concrete weight loss to report yet. My weight has held steady at about 210 pounds (though with my crummy analog scale it’s tough to be exact).

I just made room for the exercise bike last night, so now I can add that to my routine — wait, no I can’t, I haven’t written down a solid routine yet.

And I had a yummy lunch! Two big bowls of mixed broccoli, cauliflower and carrots with Fake Butter, pepper, salt, and half of a Jenny O lean turkey kielbasa, all microwave-steamed together. Two big bowls of it were only 345 calories altogether. Add that to the bagel I had for breakfast with fat-free cream cheese, that’s another 300 calories.

It’s weird, but I think I’m enjoying this.

[Least_Original_User_Name_Ever]

[QUOTE=Valgard]
Well, two weeks, and he’s starting out at 300lbs.
[/QUOTE]

Yeah, I know. I wanted to try and show some solidarity, but alas, I am not able.

[Least_Original_User_Name_Ever]

[QUOTE=Fish]
Reporting in: I’ve been working out with more regularity over the past week. Even though there are days when I’m busy.I always manage to make time. I’m just past the always-store stage and I’m feeling really good about how things are going so far.

No concrete weight loss to report yet. My weight has held steady at about 210 pounds (though with my crummy analog scale it’s tough to be exact).

I just made room for the exercise bike last night, so now I can add that to my routine — wait, no I can’t, I haven’t written down a solid routine yet.

And I had a yummy lunch! Two big bowls of mixed broccoli, cauliflower and carrots with Fake Butter, pepper, salt, and half of a Jenny O lean turkey kielbasa, all microwave-steamed together. Two big bowls of it were only 345 calories altogether. Add that to the bagel I had for breakfast with fat-free cream cheese, that’s another 300 calories.

It’s weird, but I think I’m enjoying this.
[/QUOTE]

Very good to hear. Keep your eyes on the prize ,fella.

[Fish]

Okay, I couldn’t stand the inaccuracy and variability of the other scale, so I got a digital one. My weight as of right now is 211.6, but it’s not the usual time of day when I weigh — I’ll report in with my official weight in the morning.

And Improv Geek, by an email list do you mean some kind of listserv that we can send public emails to that would route around to the various participants? I’m game for that, if that’s what you mean. (On the other hand, keeping up a thread like this may inspire other people to join in.)

[Improv_Geek]

Five pounds is well within reason of healthy weight loss for me. I’m a big dude. My frame carries the weight well (most people wouldn’t guess I wear anywhere near 300 lbs.) But the weight is there. My body fat was hovering just under 29% a month or so ago, though I don’t have calipers to check it lately and I’ve lost some weight since then.

I’m doing well, our house scale is not terribly accurate. I’m just trying to watch the fast food, sodas and candy. It’s tough, but I’m doing alright.

Today I compromised and got a grilled chicken sandwich, then basically ate it open faced to avoid the mayonnaise and stuff.

As for the mailing list, yeah I meant a listserv sort of thing, but you’re right that this sort of thread encourages new members. If more people want it, I’ll set it up - otherwise we’ll just stick with this

– IG

[Illuminatiprimus]

I’m coming to this quite late in the day but I’ve got some tips for people trying to lose weight (well, I say tips, I’ve written something more like an essay).

I’ve gone from being 70kg to (currently) 61.5 in a year and a half, although most of this weight loss occured over the course of about six months. The real way to be successful is not just to monitor what you eat, but (as others have said) reduce the total amount too. But the other vital thing you need to do is to eat according to the time of day - no, this isn’t like eating according to your blood group or anything ridiculous, it’s an easy and scientific way of managing your vitamin intake. You need different food compotents at different times as I outline below. Coupled to that you should also try and eat according to your need - plan what activity you’re doing over the course of a day and then think whether you can afford to have that dessert/can of fizzy drink/bag of crips/chocolate/whatever. It’s not that you should never ever have them, but that you should only be eating treats when you’ve got some kind of activity ahead that will a) mean you merit then and b) burn off the fat/calories they confer.

Breakfast should always be carb heavy, so lots of wholewheat/grains/fruit - eat as much as you feel you need and it should be as soon as you wake up - if you don’t eat much in the evening then you should be hungry! A good snack at mid morning (say around 10.30) is something like Dr Bircher museli which is utterly yummy and really good for you (it’s basically yoghurt and muesli mixed with fruit).

Lunch should be a full balanced meal - I totally disagree that salad is a filling lunch. Have a proper meat and two veg meal, if you’ve got a canteen (as I do) then this is easier, otherwise you may have to bring your own food it. Please for God’s sake don’t eat a load of lettuce and cold veg and then wonder why you’re feeling unsatisfied afterward. The balance at lunch should be between carbs and protein with a bit of fat, so something like lamb chop with potato and brocoli would be good (for example).

Evening meal - eat as early as you practically can and don’t eat after 8pm (this assumes a bedtime of around 11/12 - you shouldn’t be eating less than four hours before you go to sleep). Your evening meal should consist of protein as much as possible - some chicken without sauce, cold meal and a glass of milk is a great evening meal (if slightly uninteresting). Fish is a brilliant evening meal. You should try and eat as little as possible but have something to ensure your system is still going (otherwise you risk diabetes later in life). I often go to bed on a glass of warm milk or a serving of scrambled eggs - filling, protein-rich and quite light ensuring I wake up ready for breakfast the next day.

The logic underpinning all this is that you need carbs during the day to fuel activity (including the ongoing requirements of just living), and this need drops off as the day goes on. At night time when you’re asleep is when you do most of your muscle growth and tissue repair - this requires protein. Carbs eaten in the evening aren’t properly used and are far more likely to be converted into fat for use later - not what you want.

I’ve been following this diet and have given it to several others who have also had great results with it. My dad (53) has lost over a stone in four months with virtually no exercise just by reducing his intake and planning it as I’ve described. If you throw in exercise to this mix then the weight will plummet as all your excess fat is burnt off really quickly. Forget the gym as a way of losing weight - find an activity that gets your heartrate up that is fun.

Ever been to dance classes? Most modern dance types are like an aerobics workout with stretching and core strength thrown in. Not only will the weight fall off but it’ll get sucked into a tigher space as you tone up too, and you’ll have loads of fun doing it. Ever played squash/racquetball? You burn about 700-1000 cals an hour playing and it’s huge fun too (I’m off for a game in 15 minutes!). If you have a squash club near you join in and see the results - it’s another good sport for toning as well. Successful exercise is about finding something you would choose to do so that it’s never a chore, that way you don’t risk not bothering to go one time and suddenly falling out of your routine.

Phew, quite a lot but hope it’s useful. Let me know if you want to more about anything I’ve described, and good luck with the play!

[Fish]

[QUOTE=Illuminatiprimus]
If you throw in exercise to this mix then the weight will plummet as all your excess fat is burnt off really quickly. Forget the gym as a way of losing weight - find an activity that gets your heartrate up that is fun.
[/quote]

I’m not simply lifting weights — I have an exercise bike, too.

Ever been to dance classes?

This won’t work well for me, as I’ve had half a foot cut off. (Half a foot of what? I hear you ask — get your mind out of the gutter. :)) Bad dancers have two left feet; I don’t even have one.

A stationary bike works well for me because it doesn’t put undue strain on what’s left of my left foot or require lots of heel-toe flexing or ankle flexibility. I can’t use a stairstepper or similar for those reasons.

Thanks for the suggestions, though.

[Love_Rhombus]

I’m in. I’m 6’1 and 215 last check- I want to get more solid, especially around the middle and my chestal area (any suggestions there? pushups?), but I’m mainly interested in getting strong. I’ll do running and stuff, but I’m never gonna be fast. So I’ll be big.

I’m thinking…10 pounds by April at the latest? …diet stuff will be a bigger dedication due to my weak willpower. Still, I’ve been going to the gym 3 days a week for at least a month, so it’s a good start.