The economics of autograph shows

I went to DragonCon in Atlanta this weekend and it was the first time I’ve ever been in an autograph room. It fascinated me. It’s strange to see so many recognizable faces lined up like whores in Reeperbahn windows and to see who’s aged well, who hasn’t, who seems really outgoing, who seems a douche, etc…

The big star attraction was Tom Felton (Draco Malfoy from Harry Potter) whose line stretched not just out the door but down a staircase through a hall on a lower level- he must have signed thousands of autographs and all at $30 per.

A sad booth: Loni Anderson- who is teensy tiny in person and practically has “Made by DuPont” visible through her skin- and Howard Hesseman, who looked 112 years old and not helped by the fact he looked like he hadn’t bathed in a couple of days and was wearing a suit that looked like it was made from a pair of pajamas. Saddest thing: all the times I went in the room there was never a line at their table and I only saw one or two people buying.

Most changed in appearance from his ‘not that long ago heyday’: Nicholas Brendan (Xander from Buffy the Vampire Slayer); at 40 the puppy dog cuteness is gone, the gray hair is coming in everywhere but not in a flattering way, and his face looks like it’s been 40 rough years. He also never had much of a crowd; per others in attendance, he’s a bit of an ass.

The only autograph I bought was from Beau Bridges. He started a conversation with me when I was standing near his booth and after we talked for a little while (very personable super nice guy) I felt I owed him. Though frankly I’d have felt less obligated if I’d noticed he charged $30 first (most charged $25).

Longest line for a relative has-been: Elvira. Her line was out-the-door at one point (and her booth wasn’t that close to the door) and was never less than several people deep. Also, she looks mahvelous- she was in full gear and it was hard to believe she’s 60 because other than some mild crow’s feet when you’re up really close she looks the same as in her heyday.

Christopher Lloyd came in as I was leaving and passed a few feet from me. He’s 73 and looks it but got a huge ovation when he went to his table. I don’t know this for certain but somebody told me his autograph was $50 and there was a big sign saying No Photographs. He quickly drew a long line.

Carrie Fisher was also there- I don’t think it would surprise anybody to learn she looks like hell and sounds like she’s smoked 5 packs a day since The Empire Strikes Back, but seemed to enjoy her fans and had a respectable line at all times.

Bigger stars were in smaller and less Reeperbahn rooms:

Martin Landau- he’s 84 and looks absolutely ancient and like he’s out of The Motion Picture Home for the day. He was sitting next to Ernest Borgnine who’s 94 and looks like… Ernest Borgnine. Ernie seemed super alert and like he’s got a few thousand more miles on him, which I hope he does (there need to be a few “stars long before I was born” people around and kicking for a while).

James Marsters wasn’t at his table when I was there but I’m told that when he is he gets a huge line. One reason is he has a reputation for being super nice to his fans. Even though he’s done several things since he played Spike he sometimes even bleaches and close cuts his hair for their benefit; no idea if he did this year.

Joe Manganiello (Alcide from True Blood) was there and is as gucking forgeous in person as he is on the show, and ditto Misha Collins, but both were selling their autographs for something like $50.

Anyway, as mentioned this was in Atlanta. Most of the autographs were at least $25, some more (most expensive was William Shatner- $70), and in most if not all cases that was cash only. (Shatner may have been the exception- you had to pre-purchase and they might take cards.) As mentioned some had steady lines and some had long dormant periods.

The bigger/busier stars like Felton and Lloyd, neither of whom seem to lack for projects, earned a small fortune probably (I’d be very surprised if Felton grossed less than $50,000 the 3 days he was there) but then they get paid a lot of money for their projects; on the other hand unless Loni Anderson and Howard Hesseman, neither of whom are overly busy these days (no idea if that’s a choice or not- Hesseman works more than Loni but mostly in episodic guest shots) had much bigger crowds when I wasn’t around I’d be surprised if they made more than a few hundred dollars- if that- after paying for their hotel and transportation.

So I was curious if there’s any inside scoop on the economics of these shows. Does anybody know if the stars pay their own way/pay for a booth or if the convention organizers pay them/guarantee them a minimum or an advance? I’m guessing the fact most of the payments were in cash is significant- they probably lie to the IRS about how much they took in if they report it at all, thus every $1earned signing autographs could conceivably be the equal of $2 or even $4 earned on a movie (on which they’d pay full taxes, agent’s commission, personal assistant, etc.).

Are these significant sources of income for these people (the lesser employed anyway) or more side-money and self promotion?

The person who sits with them and takes the money at their booth: is that usually an agent of the celebrity or somebody who works for the autograph venue?

Anybody know about any of these things?

And if not, feel free to share anything autograph show related.

Erin Gray books a lot of them.

I don’t have an answer to your question but I had no idea that you have to pay fifty bucks for an autograph from one of those celebrities. I don’t really have any interest in celebrity autographs but it would be nice to tell someone that I enjoyed their work.

Part of the reason that you pay these sorts for their autographs is that a portion of the people seeking autographs are doing so to turn around and sell the autograph for a profit. It’s a shame that they can’t sort out who’s simply a fan and who’s in business, but I can see why they take the easy way out and simply charge. If someone’s doing it just to make money off of you, it’s not unreasonable to take a cut yourself.

Interesting. Thanks. (I wonder if the person at the table with the celeb works for her so she knows whether they’re skimming. :D)

I read a “Where are they now” interview with Bernie Kopell (Doc from Love Boat) a few years ago and he does autograph shows but only around the greater L.A. area. He said that he has enough from pensions and investments to pay the bills but he fathered two kids in his late 60s and whatever he makes goes into their college fund.

Any major Sci-Fi franchise has a great backend. Wil Wheaton doesn’t have to work in anything but Star Trek related personal appearances to live comfortably (not lavishly but comfortably) on his earnings. Similarly Rene Auberjunois said that one of the biggest reasons he took the role on Deep Space Nine was that he knew with STAR TREK conventions he’d have an income for life. He wasn’t penniless but he had kids in expensive colleges and he and his wife were going to sell their house/move to lesser digs to pay for the tuition, but STAR TREK allowed them to keep it.

I think that’s why a lot of them insist on personalizing the autographs: it kills, or at least greatly reduces, resale. (Which is a shame, because I was hoping my Beau Bridges autograph would one day be my retirement.)

Hey! I went down to Dragon*Con too, my first time there! I got signatures from James, Felicia Day, Michael Rosenbaum and Laura Vandervoort from Smallville, Tahmoh Pennikett…

I don’t have any true behind the scenes know-how, though I might be able to pass your questions on to someone who’s on staff with Fan Expo in Toronto, no promises. But my own impressions from attending a few other conventions with this kind of autograph hall:

  • The ‘handler’ is usually somebody who came with the guest, not an employee or volunteer for the con. I think that it could be a personal assistant, friend, or relative, as well as an actual agent.

  • I wouldn’t read too much into the cash basis meaning tax larceny - 95% of everything at a convention like Dragon*Con is on a cash basis - well, excepting the pre-registered passes and the hotels, but the food concessions, the dealer’s hall, and so on. I can’t see how it would pay off for each star to have a credit-debit machine at their table, and any kind of centralized ‘autograph ticket’ system would probably be too awkward.

  • I don’t have any idea if there’s a payment between the stars and the convention, but the system would probably work without it. The stars get money for each signature to pay them for their time and expenses, and the show benefits from the interest in autographs because everybody who wants autographs has to pay for a pass, and are liable to spend more money at the concessions and dealer’s hall and so on.

  • And I wouldn’t guess about how much money they’re making in total. :slight_smile: Don’t forget the ‘get your picture taken with the stars’ racket as well as the autographs, where I assume the stars and the photographers split up the take somehow.

Don’t have an answer for the OP’s question, but I’m curious about something. For that fee can you have them autograph anything? Like with Christopher Lloyd for example, if you paid the 50 bucks, can you bring in a Back to the Future DVD set and have him sign it, or do you just get a standard 8X10 black and white glossy print?

And if you are allowed to bring your own items for the celebrity to sign, is there limit? I’m assuming you can’t just bring in a garbage bag full of collectibles. But are you limited to just one item, or can you bring in, say, two or three or more?

Paying for autographs? I feel so old. I remember at the first comic cons that the artists and writers were flattered that anybody would want their autographs. Many artists would do a little sketch for you and sign it. No charge.

In general, media guests – those famous for being on TV or in movies – have their expenses paid by the con. Their airfare is covered, and they are given rooms and a per-diem. In addition, they get most of the money paid for autographs.

I’ve had various media names contact me when I was running Albacon (best known were Lou Ferrigno and Mark Allan Shepherd, who played Morn in ST:DS9). I courteously replied that they were welcome to attend on the same basis as any of our guests: they’d get a free membership for themselves and a spouse. I never heard back from them.

Authors, OTOH, don’t get paid for attending and rarely charge for autographs.

Most of the ones I saw had a variety of items- glossies (b/w and color) and sometimes DVDs and other items to choose from, all for a price of course. You could bring your own items but you still paid for each individual autograph, so if you wanted Lloyd to sign 4 Back to the Future DVD sets it would be $200.

At DragonCon the vendors rooms some of the stalls front displayed some items specifically for the autograph market (e.g. a Wesley Crusher action figure, a Tim Burton’s ED WOOD poster, an Elvira comic, etc., all of which had an appropriate celebrity to sign them upstairs). The celebrities would sign it and you didn’t have to pay for one of their own pics but you still paid the fee.

I was surprised Lloyd was in attendance, and apparently has done other cons of late, considering he’s a very reserved person and never does talk shows. OTOH he lost his house in the Malibu fires a couple of years ago so this might be to help with rebuilding/refurnishing. (And he apparently has a much younger girlfriend which can also be an expensive hobby;))

They still do that.

Christopher Lloyd’s grandfather on his mother’s side was one of the founders of Texaco. So there was money in the family, although perhaps he didn’t inherit much or anything.

Not particularly relevant to the discussion, but Lloyd’s nephew is Sam Lloyd from SCRUBS.

chrisk: any favorite costumes? I liked the Renaissance Justice League.

Does anybody know if Pete Rose currently resides in Las Vegas?
Reason being I was there 5 years ago and saw him in some little place on the strip (in the M&M/Coke plaza) signing autographs. Then I return 5 years later and there he is in a sports memorabilia shop in Mandalay Bay doing the same thing.
Just wondering if that’s all he’s been doing the past 5 years?

Having spoken to a number of minor celebs at similar conventions (such as GenCon), the autograph circuit is definitely an important supplemental income for them. Guys like Shatner or Christopher Lloyd, who still work regularly, and get respectable residuals from all their work, probably don’t need the money. But, B-list actors, like the ones with whom I spoke (such as Marc Singer, who was in “V” and “Beastmaster”, or Virginia Hey, who was in “Farscape”) don’t work as regularly, or get the big residuals…and, so, selling a few hundred autographs at $20 a pop is a worthwhile investment of a weekend for them.

On the topic of autographing items…my wife is a big fan of the TV show “Supernatural”, and has attended a number of conventions to get autographs. She has a copy of the Supernatural RPG book, which she’s been having the actors sign. Her book now has all of the major actors’ autographs, and quite a few of the guest actors – the only one she’s missing is Jeffrey Dean Morgan, who played the Winchesters’ father (apparently, he doesn’t do the con circuit).

Which is good, because that’s how I collected most of my signed First Editions. Get the book, then wait until the author shows up on the convention circuit. It makes for interesting conversations sometimes. Like when I presented Larry Niven with a First of Ringworld ( the one with the mistake in it.)

None of the author signings I’ve been to charge for an autograph but some do require you to purchase a copy of the book on premises, especially (but not only in) bookstores; you can’t bring a copy you already own or just have the sign an autograph book.

Marc Singer was there this year. Apparently he does a lot of these. Ditto Richard Hatch from the original Battlestar Galactica (not to be confused with crazy naked gay Survivor guy).

I was most surprised by Landau and Borgnine considering their advanced ages and Landau’s frailty. Both are Oscar winners, both have had plenty of work in recent years, both would be eligible for Social Security and SAG pensions as well as whatever other annuities and retirement funds they paid into, and Borgnine’s wife earned a fortune with her cosmetics company back in the day, so I doubt either needs the money. Borgnine seemed really nice and was actually talking to a couple of kids who no doubt recognized most as the voice of the Mermaid Man from SpongeBob Square Pants.

A friend who goes every year told me the saddest was Phil Brown, an actor best known for (and to most only known for) playing Uncle Owen in the original Star Wars. He said the poor old guy was in a wheelchair, on oxygen, was so feeble he could barely move and seemed deaf and senile. In his case I would guess that it was 100% for the money as his family probably needed it for his elder care.

It’s up to the star and the handler for specifics, but yes, you can bring your own items. I had James and Felicia sign comics at D*C, as well as getting a glossy from Felicia.

I think I actually had Summer Glau sign 6 things at Fan Expo last year:

  • A ‘Blue Sun’ T-shirt, which I sort of regret, because now I don’t want to risk washing it and can’t wear it. :wink:
  • A ‘Sarah Connor Chronicles’ glossy that I bought at a different convention.
  • My Serenity blueprints book, which has now been signed by 3 regulars on the show, plus Melinda Clarke.
  • The ‘Those Left Behind’ graphic novel, also signed by Adam and Jewel.
  • The Serenity RPG book.

I’m not sure what the sixth thing was, if there was one. Maybe I brought along the official movie companion book and decided not to bother getting that signed after all. You do have to pay for each collectible that you want signed, and it’s also a little inconsiderate to hold up the line for a long time.

Sampiro, there were so many cool costumes, it’s hard picking out just one - I remember noticing a Hawkman who’d done a pretty good job, and trying to get his attention for a picture while I was in line for the Smallville Q&A, and also lots of great Doctors and other Doctor Who costumes.

Stan Lee and Todd McFarlane were also in the “can’t possibly need the money but were there selling autographs” divison. They were signing together in a private room, $55 per IIRC, and would sign anything related to them.

Chris Lloyd and Beau Bridges, along with a number of other celebs, live here in the Santa Barbara area. I have interacted with both of them.

Lloyd is a self-important fucking asshole. We both go to the same excellent sushi restaurant in Montecito. He asks the staff to keep the chair next to him at the sushi bar open so he doesn’t have to sit next to any of the rabble. One time, on a busy night, the stool next to him and the one next to that were open. There was also one open table. The hostess tried to steer me to the table but I pointed to the bar and my date and I sat there. I was next to him. He looked at me like I was a worthless piece of trash and then turned ninety degrees so that his back was to me and his side was to the sushi bar. He spent the rest of his meal like that. Believe me, if you live in Santa Barbara and you’re out and about, you see celebrities all the time. I had no interest in having a conversation with him.

Beau, on the other hand, is a totally cool guy. I’ve seen him at a few concerts in some small clubs. Sometimes Jeff will be with him. Actually both of them are cool and personable and don’t put on airs at all.