If you are vaccinated, I understand that you cannot be infected or infect others.
What am I missing?
That it’s not true.
From the numbers quoted in your link, that is .0099 percent, which rounds off to .01 percent, which I believe is still acceptable. 10 of 1,000 vaccinated people might be infected. That is low enough to be an error.
You made a definitive statement, but the answer is not that definitive. We actually don’t know the numbers with any accuracy, as a lot of it is self-reporting, but we know for an absolute fact that the vaccine does not make it impossible to be infected.
From the study my link was based on:
The findings in this report are subject to at least two limitations. First, the number of reported COVID-19 vaccine breakthrough cases is likely a substantial undercount of all SARS-CoV-2 infections among fully vaccinated persons. The national surveillance system relies on passive and voluntary reporting, and data might not be complete or representative. Many persons with vaccine breakthrough infections, especially those who are asymptomatic or who experience mild illness, might not seek testing. Second, SARS-CoV-2 sequence data are available for only a small proportion of the reported cases.
Did I miss something? Where in the article (or elsewhere) does it say the numbers are self-reported? That’s not how it’s worked all along, and I can’t find anything that says that the data on infection rates relies entirely on self-reporting. In fact, laws say that doctors, hospitals, and labs MUST report COVID-positive cases.
This is true. No vaccine is 100% effective. If you had the measles vaccine, you’ve never been 100% immune to measles. The same is true for the polio and any other vaccines you’ve been given. But I do understand not trusting anyone. It’s been a rough year, with a lot of idiotic behavior. It’s OK to say you’re masking because no risk is too slight for you and/or that you don’t trust humans at all any more.
I still say it’s wiser to base beliefs on solid science. I researched exhaustively before I concluded that the scientists (including Dr. Fauci) know what they’re talking about when they say masking is not necessary for vaccinated people in most situations. However, I understand and respect those who are fearful about not masking.
They must report COVID-positive cases, but they aren’t required to share the vaccination status of those cases. “Self-reported” was probably not the ideal term, as while the vaccination status is often self-reported, passing that on to the CDC is typically done by a healthcare provider of some sort.
Basically, the CDC has stated that they don’t have any idea of the actual number of breakthrough cases and that the numbers they report are likely vastly lower than reality.
I’m addressing posters who say things like “there is a real political calculus at play. …I, a liberal woman, need those politicians to keep their jobs because I really don’t want to live in White Male Christian Libertarian Utopia-land.” and “How many unvaccinated people will simply refuse to wear masks now?” Like the virus gives a good god damn if you’re a liberal woman resisting WMCLU or how public messaging will affect unvaccinated people’s actions.
It’s either true or it’s not. Either vaccinated people find utility in wearing a mask or they don’t. It’s really depressing to see a site “fighting ignorance” by encouraging the burying of discovered facts.
I’m sorry, but this kind of simplistic collapse of of information into a binary is exactly the kind of ignorance I want to fight.
In the beginning, the CDC said, “don’t wear a mask unless you are sick or caring for someone who is sick”, (because we have a massive shortage of masks) but the message was collapsed into “masks aren’t helpful”.
Now, they are saying that vaccinated individuals don’t generally need to wear masks except in health care settings and certain other higher risk situations. That doesn’t mean “there is no utility in wearing a mask if you are vaccinated”. It does mean there is a lot less utility than for an unvaccinated person. A vaccinated person is less likely to be infected, and much less likely to become seriously ill or to spread covid to others.
So, when might a vaccinated person wear a mask ? In a hospital. When visiting an immune compromised person. When it makes others more comfortable. When others don’t know if they are vaccinated, and it’s simpler to mask up than to wear an “i got vaccinated” sticker. When it’s cold out and they appreciate the warmth. When mowing the lawn, to keep pollen and dust out of their lungs…
That is a little bit of an overstatement. The actual CDC comment is: The number of COVID-19 vaccine breakthrough infections reported to CDC likely are an undercount of all SARS-CoV-2 infections among fully vaccinated persons. National surveillance relies on passive and voluntary reporting, and data might not be complete or representative. From here
So you’re correct there is a lot of passive reporting per the CDC, but they didn’t say anything about the numbers being vastly lower than reality. As noted some breakthrough is expected and I don’t think people should sleep on that, but the vaccines do seem pretty effective overall.
I’m going by their report here:
…the number of reported COVID-19 vaccine breakthrough cases is likely a substantial undercount of all SARS-CoV-2 infections among fully vaccinated persons.
I’ll happily change the phrase “vastly lower” to “substantially lower” if you think that suits the situation better.
I should have responded that I have no disagreement with this statement in any way as the vaccines are wonderfully effective. I’m just trying to keep people from parroting lines like:
We’re vaccinating so very fast, our data from the CDC today suggests, you know, that vaccinated people do not carry the virus, don’t get sick, and that it’s not just in the clinical trials but it’s also in real world data.
I’m going to continue to mask in any indoor public place just to be polite. Most places still have a mask request and most people in my area (San Antonio) are still wearing masks in stores, etc.
However, I don’t think we’d see the precipitous drop in new cases, hospitalizations, and deaths throughout the US if the vaccine wasn’t preventing asymptomatic spread. Even if the breakthrough cases are 10-fold more than what’s actually being reported, I think a vaccinated person is pretty safe from being infected at all, even by the current variants. That may change with new variants, but I think it’s true now.
I completely agree with that. Your use of the term “pretty safe” is what I consider to be an ideal description of the current situation for the vaccinated.
This. But I do wonder (essentially idly, since I’ve been working from home for almost 20 years and thus don’t care that much, at least until I start traveling for work again, if that ever happens): what will the path back to non-mask-wearing look like? Six months from now, will Tfletch1 and I be the only folks still masking? At that point we’ll start to feel…well, a bit weird.
At this point, when I see someone else in a store without a mask, I wonder, “Are they vaxxed and thus figure they’re safe? Or are the just maskholes who are taking advantage of the fact that they can get away with it?”
I guess if I stop wondering that, I’ll feel like I can take mine off. Maybe.
I’m going to wait until most places remove their signs and new cases continue to decline. Then I’ll forgo the mask.
I took my children to the pediatrician today for their annual check-up. We all wore masks in the waiting room, check-in area, and the exam room. As soon as the doctor walked in, she lowered her mask and told us to feel free to take ours off. She didn’t know my vaccination status - I’m fully vaxxed; my kids got dose 1 today - so that made me feel that she was confident enough in the protection of the vaccine she received to spend time in a tiny little enclosed exam room with no masks on anyone regardless of our vaccination status. I don’t wear a mask inside a place that doesn’t require it . I keep one handy for places that do.
One difference is that it’s possible to do everything “right,” and still get the flu. For example, the flu vaccine offers distinctly limited protection.
It’s getting to the point where if somebody gets Covid, there’s roughly a 99% chance that it’s genuinely their own fault, because they are almost certainly not vaccinated, even though they had a chance to be.
New cases are plummeting near me. I’m pretty pro-mask, but I’m thinking I may be falling behind the times on this.
Actually, I’m going to wait until my husband’s second dose kicks in before abandoning all care to the winds… But that’s going to be very soon, now.
Same here in Arkansas. I walk into a Loves and the sign says mask required but nobody but me and one other person was wearing theirs.
Yep. Looks like it’s coming soon. I’ll be watching the news and county numbers in case a sneaky variant starts pushing past the vaccines, but I don’t think that’s going to happen for a while.