It’s not just to keep the anti-vaxxers safe from each other: I figure that’s a risk they’ve decided to take. No, it’s other groups we should still be concerned about. There are still a frustrating number of people who are vaccine-hesitant, I’m on a state committee that’s been working toward alleviating vaccine hesitancy, which is higher in certain segments of the population. There’s been progress, but it takes time to, for instance, convince people whose hesitation is due to historical violations of trust against people of color (e.g. the infamous Tuskegee Experiment,) or, as is the case with many homeless people, whose main news source is rumor. And we’re simply not there yet.
And then there are people–I haven’t been able to find out how many–who cannot get vaccinated due to certain cancer treatments (stem cell transplants, CAR T-cell therapy, aggressive chemo) or severe allergies. The recommendation for those particular cancer patients to wait at least 3 months after treatment has ended, so it’s merely a matter of time, but again, not there yet.
But are you worried that you, as a vaccinated person, will still spread COVID? Or are you worried about non-vaccinated people, now freed from the social pressure to wear the mask, will spread COVID?
I guess what I was saying is: in a world of perfect honestly, would you think it safe for vaccinated people to go unmasked?
Letting states figure things out on their own is how we got into this mess. If it’d been up to them, red states wouldn’t have done anything at all, maybe not even vaccinate.
It is entirely unreasonable to expect stores, other venues, and the general public to be able to tell an unmasked vaccinated person from an unmasked unvaccinated person; and therefore it will rapidly become impossible to enforce masking on anyone in anything other than tightly controlled situations. The people who are resistant to getting vaccinated are also in a high percentage of cases very resistant to wearing masks. Making it effectively impossible to enforce public masking will result in large numbers of unvaccinated unmasked people mixing with other such in public; which will provide a large reservoir of continuing infection. This will pose hazards to those who can’t get vaccinated and to those who didn’t respond to the vaccine, and also significantly increase the chances of variants resistant to the vaccines occuring and spreading.
It will also, of course, kill or seriously damage some of the vaccine-and-mask resistant. I’m not entirely willing to join the who-gives-a-shit crowd. They’re still people; and there are people (and cats and dogs and so on) who love them.
It’s not untrue. Being vaccinated greatly improves one’s chances, but it doesn’t make people “100% safe” from covid.
The prior advice wasn’t ‘don’t change much’. It was ‘the vaccinated can change quite a lot of the things they’ve been doing, but should still wear masks indoors in public places’.
What is happening NOW is an exemplar of exactly how you got into this mess. The endless push to get back to normal. Hedging all your bets on the vaccine and now that the job is half-done thinking the pandemic is over. The States obviously needed guidance and leadership from the top. But the pandemic isn’t over. There are going to be pockets of surges and thanks to this guidance it will be harder to get people to mask up when that happens.
And you are going to see increasing cases of this happening:
The CDC could have issued this guidance to the states and the states could have made the appropriate calls on how to handle the guidance.
So your objection rests on not being able to tell who is “safe” to go unmasked? Again, I am totally comfortable with that being the policy–in fact, I think it’s wise. But I think we should say that’s what we are doing, not fearmonger.
Isn’t that what they’re doing? My understanding is that not all states are easing or ending restrictions based on these guidelines.
Anyway, as I said before, I’m MUCH less inclined to suspect the CDC of “pushing normalcy” recklessly than I would have a few months ago. That may actually be the main reason I’m inclined to trust it…
The actual guidance is much more nuanced. But the only thing that most people are seeing are the big words in bold “CAN STOP WEARING MASKS.” With “fully vaccinated” in tiny font that nobody notices.
That is APPALLING messaging. Nothing about states or local law (which IS included in the CDC tweet.) It’s a push to normalcy. The Whitehouse and the CDC should be on exactly the same page here but they aren’t.
There is nothing inherently wrong with the guidance. The guidance isn’t the problem.
Ultimately, I think I trust the Biden administration to follow the science and do the best thing for general public health. Maybe my standards are too low after Trump, but I believe that DC is now taking this specific virus more seriously than literally ever before.
I wish we lived in such a world. There are all sorts of reasons for dishonesty here:
Some think COVID is a hoax or that the risks are exaggerated.
Some, still vax-hesitant, won’t want to stand out.
Some will hear only that masks aren’t needed, not the “for vaxxed” part.
I guess one could say, “We who are vaccinated shouldn’t have to wear a mask just because some people won’t get vaccinated” and be perfectly correct: we shouldn’t have to, but those who don’t comply may make it necessary. We peaceable types shouldn’t have to go through the hassle of airport security just because there are people who try to crash/hijack airplanes. We honest types shouldn’t have to deal with anti-theft devices at stores just because some people shoplift. And we wouldn’t have to do these things if only the hijackers and shoplifters didn’t make it necessary.
People who are making the claim that we need to keep masking because it’s unsafe for us. That the vaccines do not prevent spread, or that we do not have sufficient evidence that the vaccines prevent spread. I was/am trying to figure out if anyone making the “too soon” argument is coming at it from that point of view.
That’s the distinction I was getting at. Should vaccinated people wear masks as a actual step to protect their health, or as part of a regrettable but necessary sort of social obligation? I think the consensus of the thread seems to be the latter.
The vaccine is a tool, albeit an imperfect tool. I get a flu vaccine each year, yet I avoid anyone who is obviously ill. I wear a condom during sex, but would decline sex with an obviously syphylitic partner.
I have a big issue with the suddenness with which they announced this. It’s left everybody scrambling to figure out what to do. They should have announced that they were considering changing the guidance and given decision makers at least a week or two of lead time to get ready.
This wasn’t directed at me, but I’ll answer anyway. In a world of perfect honesty, I personally would feel sufficiently safe to go maskless. No problem. I wish I lived in that world of honesty
How would that work, exactly? I mean, if you say “We’re going to change our guidance to XYZ,” you effectively HAVE changed your guidance already, but if you just say you’re going to change your guidance but you don’t say how you are going to change it, it’s not particularly useful in terms of preparation.
The people this hurts the most are the working poor, those with customer facing jobs like grocery stores and restaurants. Unvaccinated patrons will feel emboldended to remove their masks, and their coworkers will feel pressure to go maskless as well.
If they said, “we are considering XYZ within the next two weeks,” then the powers that be can plan for that contingency.
This came way sooner than expected. With some advance warning, the governor of [State] and the CEO of [Company] wouldn’t be scrambling right now.
ETA - I did say “considering” in my original post. When you rephrased it, you said “going to.” Very different thing, and frankly, a misrepresentation of what I said. (No harm no foul, though)
Yup, that’s why I said in another post I’m be somewhat more comfortable with this if we had at least waited until everyone who wanted to get vaccinated has the opportunity to get fully vaccinated.