I don’t use them now.
Actually neither do I but I’m in a committed relationship with one woman. Twenty years ago when I had different types of relationships, some lasting just one night, I did.
Firstly, this, to me, comes down to telling vaccinated people something isn’t (relatively) safe for them to do, when it is (relatively) safe. I do not approve of lying to the public because some people will react badly to the truth. When it comes out (and it often does), it will reasonable diminish trust in authorities.
I am in favor of evidence-based actions, and that’s what this is.
Secondly, what percentage of those you you think are going to ignore the “if I get vaccinated part” weren’t already ignoring the masking advice.
This is not snark, nor an anti-Mahr statement: I am sincerely glad to know Mahr got vaccinated. Not that long ago, he supported the idea that vaccines may cause autism. Knowing someone with that view nevertheless got the COVID vaccination gives me hope that the anti-vaxxers I know might do the same.
As for Mahr’s testing positive showing that “a vaccinated person can become infected to the point of testing positive,” doesn’t any level of infection with COVID lead to a positive test?
Not that I’m not still concerned about not having reached herd immunity and ditching masks, but I’m hoping further word from the CDC will provide reassurance. I think the reasoning was that the guidance would motivate the unvaccinated to get vaccinated, but there’s been very little emphasis on that, and I’m not convinced that tactic will work. However, I hope I’m wrong on that count and that the CDC or someone here can straighten me out.
This is a straw man. Nobody has lied (and nobody is adovcating lying) about the remarkable efficacy of the vaccines, that they grant virtually complete protection against serious disease, at least for the early strains. You can be perfectly honest about this, yet still advocate a public policy that everyone should still mask and social distance in public environments on the basis that we should target herd immunity and we have no way to know who is vaccinated, and we also have clear evidence it is not good public policy to trust people who are unvaccinated to be honest about their status or to voluntarily act responsibly. If we took such an approach yet a great majority of responsible vaccinated people in the country expressed great dissatisfaction with such an honest approach, then we could rethink it.
Yeah like people are going to pay attention to caveats. Good luck enforcing mask rules, too.
Aren’t we approaching some sort of herd immunity? Just asking I don’t know. I went out yesterday to our local pub , no one had a mask on, the bartender had had Covid, most others were seniors and had the vaccine early on.
We might have been approaching herd immunity within the next couple of months. But note that Gu prominently changed the title of this page to “normality” rather than herd immunity, reflecting uncertainty over whether we would ever reach herd immunity.
There are considerable uncertainties with projections like this, such as more infectious variants spreading. And, well, prematurely changing policy.
See also here. A bit out of date in terms of research data, but it summarizes the issues.
It is possible for someone to get COVID twice, isn’t it?
Yes, it very much is possible.
No, we are not, and whatever is happening at your local bar has nothing to do with the term “herd immunity”…although the term “herd ignorance” does come to mind.
So apparently–and I’m learning as I go here–herd immunity is probably unreachable, so we’re going to focus on local prevention and outbreaks and on making sure the most vulnerable are vaccinated so we can keep the hospitalization and death rates down. At least, that’s my take from an NYT article. [Link below, hopefully not paywalled]
Instead, [experts] are coming to the conclusion that rather than making a long-promised exit, the virus will most likely become a manageable threat that will continue to circulate in the United States for years to come, still causing hospitalizations and deaths but in much smaller numbers.
How much smaller is uncertain and depends in part on how much of the nation, and the world, becomes vaccinated and how the coronavirus evolves. It is already clear, however, that the virus is changing too quickly, new variants are spreading too easily and vaccination is proceeding too slowly for herd immunity to be within reach anytime soon.
The article goes on to say
Yet vaccinations remain the key to transforming the virus into a controllable threat, experts said.
Dr. Anthony S. Fauci, the Biden administration’s top adviser on Covid-19, acknowledged the shift in experts’ thinking.
“People were getting confused and thinking you’re never going to get the infections down until you reach this mystical level of herd immunity, whatever that number is,” he said.
“That’s why we stopped using herd immunity in the classic sense,” he added. “I’m saying: Forget that for a second. You vaccinate enough people, the infections are going to go down.”
The article explains that with variants and the high vaxx-refusal rate, herd immunity would mean 80% immunity, and that could go up with more contagious variants. Also, a national target is “hazy”: even if the country as a whole achieves herd immunity at a national level, there’d still be outbreaks in less-vaccinated local areas.
So I guess we had to give up on herd immunity.
So we’re sending the message “Thank you for doing the right thing and getting vaccinated. We know you’re protected now, but as your reward you have to continue to smother yourself with a mask because some other people are lying jerks”.
That’s one way of looking at it, sure. And if the majority of vaccinated people feel that way too, I’d accept it. But ignorant morons have been prominent and vocal enough in this country that we all know we can’t just pretend they don’t exist.
Masking and social distancing is only enforceable if it’s obligatory for everyone. So personally I would have been fine with a continued policy of everyone masking and social distancing in public contexts when mixing with strangers for a few more months, even though in a perfect world I personally don’t need to.
You are supposed to cover your face with it, not stuff it into your mouth.
And even bigger part of the recommendation is no more social distancing. I’m not sure which one I like more, the no more masks or no more social distancing. We are truly getting back to normal.
Following the CDC guidelines before, now following them afterwards is “Herd ignorance”? Ok then no wonder people are confused.
It’s amazing how people on both sides of the political spectrum only trust the CDC when their recommendations happen to line up with their personal agenda.
Edit: stupid system automatically editing my posts.
“It’s amazing how people on both sides of the political spectrum only trust the CDC when their recommendations happen to line up with their personal agenda.”
Consider this post “liked.”
From the perspective of individual health advice, I trust the CDC guidelines. I believe that when May 31st arrives (two weeks after my second Moderna shot) I will personally be pretty darned safe from Covid. Even if I do get it, it will probably be a mild case and I will be unlikely to infect others.
What I distrust is how these guidelines are going to be interpreted and implemented as rules by states and private businesses, who have little choice but to take people at their word that they are vaccinated. This leaves those who haven’t yet had the opportunity to be vaccinated or who can’t be vaccinated vulnerable to infection by those who are dishonest enough not to follow the “honor system”. Many such people are compelled by economic neccessity to work in public facing jobs.