How interesting. Why couldn’t you fold or spindle it? Especially since they seem more like 1-time-use coupons than reusable currency?
I was on SNAP for a short time, note that snap means supplemental nutrition assistance program, meaning it just added (supplements) in addition to what one would get by their own means. It really taught me that I am worth something, I have value. Without SNAP it was basically rice and beans and the occasional chicken parts pack on sale. And yes I felt that’s all I deserved. With snap, which I felt was very generous (remember my standard was rice and beans and the occasional chicken parts pack on sale), I felt not only that I was worth more, but that people cared enough to want me to have more. That meant so much that I can’t even express.
By the time I started to come around on that I had quite the balance build up as it does carry over month to month. That I splurged, King Crab legs and lobster (which technically should not qualify as live animals are not included). It was a celebration meal that really helped me to feel valuable (and loved) which eventually lead me to get off SNAP.
The thing is, if you are on SNAP or food stamps, you are buying food with someone else’s money because you cannot afford these items yourself. So it’s not unreasonable that restrictions should be placed on what you can buy,
Fortunately no one is arguing otherwise. Would you judge them for getting a treat once a month or so that on the list of allowable items?
IF you know how to use a budget and cook from scratch the SNAP allotment is sufficient that you can purchase one or two “treat” items without blowing your budget. Which doesn’t seem unreasonable to me, as the ability to do that helps encourage people to be thoughtful about their choices.
Voice of experience - my late spouse and I were on the program during the Great Recession. There are a couple of threads on the topic I contributed at the time somewhere around here.
‘Do not fold, spindle or mutilate’ originated as an instruction on computer punch cards, I believe, so perhaps there is some context in which the redeemed vouchers need to be fed into a machine to count or scan them.
I heard some people sold them, part of the reason to make it a card with your name.
I finally logged off at 6:37. I have finished dinner and am ready to reply in more detail-
I remember the first time I bought a carton of ice cream using my EBT card. I thought sirens would go off, or at the very least the cashier would scold me. I did once buy lamb using the card. My beloved 93 yeard old great uncle was visiting. Due to some very bizarre circumstances, it was me and him staying in my parent’s place while they were on vacation. His birthday fell during the visit. I asked what he wanted and he said lamb.
I also bought luxury items as gifts for friends who I felt the need to repay. If your friends help you move, you owe them pizza and beverages. To me, if the friend who works in IT fixes a major problem with your computer, or the friend with all the power tools takes the time to come over and help you fix or assemble furniture, then you owe them something. If I had no money, buying them a gourmet item I knew they wanted made sense.
I met my beloved years ago at a friend’s party. She shows her love, among other ways, by cooking and baking. So, I would buy her ingredients. Most of these were inexpensive. I did once find a store that had a big sale on saffron. The saffron was still under $10.
Re Caviar
As I have often shared, I lived in a section of north east Philly filled with ex Soviets. The local grocery choices were- Odd Lots, Wawa (a convenience store) and a Russian market. I saw over the years that many of the ex Soviets were using EBT cards. That makes sense as English is tough to learn and any degree from the USSR is generally meaningless here. Among the many other foods at the Russian market were cans of caviar. I never bought any because I don’t like caviar. I cannot say anything about brand, quality or species as all the writing on the cans was in Russian. I do not remember the range of prices.
A few months ago, I got a voice mail from the county assistance office. I thought I had used up my remaining EBT funds. The message told me that I had $120 left and if I did not spend it before a certain date, I would lose it forever. So, after no debate whatsoever, I spent it. Beowulff Was I wrong to spend the funds instead of letting the county reclaim them?
Finally, SNAP provides a bigger monthly budget. If that budget is not used wisely, the person will go hungry. If I had bought one of the fancy Russian cakes in the freezer section, I would have either had to live off oatmeal for a few days or simply not eaten for that time.
People indeed sold them for a discount and used the money to buy booze or drugs. Cards are also was easier to administrate. Funds get added digitally and the scrip doesn’t need to be mailed or picked up in person.
It’s still easy enough to buy people food or lend them your card and get cash. The cards are just regular debit cards and ID isn’t checked.
Yeah, I now work for a company that does contract work for the government. For a while, I have worked in a virtual call center helping people apply for or renew foodstamps or Medicaid. One of the many questions is ‘Would you like some one to be able to use your EBT benefits?’ If you lend your card to anybody and disclose your PIN so they can buy food with it, it is against the law. In general, this is an excedingly minor crime and nobody really cares. After I was hit by a car and barely able to walk to the bathroom, I handed my card to a friend, told them my PIN and gave them a list. That was illiegal.
While I mostly agree with the sentiment expressed here and by most posters in this thread, I’m going to play Devil’s Advocate and say that I can perhaps understand why people might feel resentful if they, themselves, hardly ever get treats or luxuries, but the government takes some of their money and gives it to other people who spend it on things that are nicer than they themselves (think they) can afford.
People who feel resentful over the luxurious lives of people on welfare do not understand what it means to be poor.
Caviar isn’t a treat; it’s conspicuous consumption. It’s Rich People Food that no one actually likes, they just serve it to show off because it’s so expensive.
/s, but I kind of can’t help thinking of it that way myself, never having been around people who actually ate it regularly and mostly only hearing about it in the context of how expensive and fancy-schmancy it is. Which, I think, lends credence to @Banquet_Bear’s theory:
And I think that is possibly the entirely correct level of pushback for that opinion.
Would I buy caviar? No. It’s gross, and buying food you won’t eat is wasteful. Will I buy myself treats? 100%
One thing you might also want to consider is that a lot of the staples are available at the food pantries, and that most people on food stamps use those as well.
The state will sometimes bust people for abusing SNAP cards.
I was perusing our county court’s website a couple years ago, and saw that my neighbor [living two doors down from us] pled guilty in 2013 for “Illegal Use Of Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program Benefits.” She received a fourth degree felony plus a $5200 fine. Ouch.
Screenshot of her indictment, with personal info redacted:
The problem with making food stamps more restrictive is that they become more and more like WIC and the implementation of WIC sucks. There’s a lot of time and effort a business would have to put in to code what’s acceptable and what’s not, and also the lines between prepared and not makes no sense. You want supermarket sushi for a single meal? Sure, that’s allowed because it’s cold even though it’s been prepared. You want a $5 rotisserie chicken to have some of now and make a nice soup that will last a few days with a few other cheap ingredients? Nope, because it was under the heat lamp.
My take on it is that I am not some sort of supermarket cop to judge what other people buy. If they spend wisely, they can eat just fine and splurge on various things. Just like anyone else who puts together a budget for groceries. If they spend poorly, they may be eating poorly for a few days. Again, just like anyone else. I’d prefer a compromise similar to what some states have already implemented for places like farmers markets: Produce, meats, grains, basic dairy, etc. are worth double their cost. Would have to deal with the hit to the stores, sure, but it’s an incentive to spend on stuff to cook with, not just prepared stuff.
I had a monthly package of food delivered from the Jewish Relief Agency. It was usually some cans of tun, occasionally canned salmon, peanut butter, Kedem tea cookies, and a no name box of cereal. I was glad to have it.
I used a food bank once. The time I mailed in my renewal packet, the USPS lost it. My EBT benefits were cancelled. While I was scrambling to get my case re opened, I needed food and had no money to pay for it. The day after I left the bag of food in my kitchen, I saw cockroaches. I knew it was no coincidence when I lifted the vented plastic lid off my can of Dinty Moore beef stew to remove the inner metal lid prior to microwaving, and found dead cockroaches. As I had no food at the time, and the inner metal lid was still sealed, I washed the can like crazy and had the stew. NOTE- I feel the need to point out that I would not normally eat Dinty Moore beef stew, as it is not kosher. I had no money to buy more food at the time. Under such circumstances, I decided it was okay to violate standard kashrut.
ETA
I also had to get driven to a food bank with other folks from my day program. I had no car and public transit would not have taken me there.
I wonder what she did? I found the case, but it didn’t have much info about how she actually defrauded the program. A little too much caviar?
She not only had to pay that fine, but also pay back $67,000 in restitution and/or court costs (it wasn’t super clear whether those were one or two separate bills). The conviction was for SNAP fraud, but she was also initially charged with Medicaid fraud and forgery (but both were removed as part of the plea agreement). The agreement apparently also made her agree to get a G.E.D. and a certificate in American Sign Language (which she already knew), in order to become a professional interpreter and pay back the funds (how interesting).
Still, I wonder how exactly she defrauded the program. Was it just a simple case of reselling the funds…? Shrug.
What about all the rich people and farmers eating caviar off the backs of poor and middle class folks? You know what the Farm Bill that funds SNAP also pays for? You know who can benefit from all the tax loopholes and cheap labor? But yeah, the occasional treat or luxury for someone living below poverty is the one to look down on. Punching down is the way to go.
(Too late to edit)
Update: Sorry, my mistake. The poster made me aware that this was a different case in the same county & year. The person they were talking about was NOT that one. My bad.